Moving from Wisconsin!! (Columbia, Charleston, Greenville: middle-class, transplants, apartments)

[Emeralds52376]

Hello

I'm a 31 year old single (white) mom of two african/american & caucasian boys :-) They are 8 and 9. I have to throw that in there because I have been told that many parts of SC are still very racist and it's not in my or their best interest to move from the 'north' to the 'south'. I have done tons of research and have narrowed it down to either greenville/spartanburg or columbia sc. My mother will be coming along and she is retired. I have talked to sooo many people on the phone from SC - in various apartments and the chamber of commerce and everyone has been sooo nice; I honestly have to know - which city/area is better and why? And honestly - will it be a problem for my children? The area whe live in now is mosty asian, and there aren't many bi racial children at all and we haven't had any problems. I was told by several apt managers to steer clear of the east side of greenville if I were to move - any help at all is greatly appreciated!!! Thanks

Kathy

[waccamatt]

Kathy,

I don't think you'll find South Carolina to be any more racist than Wisconsin, especially in the cities. Columbia does have a much larger African-American population than Greenville or Spartanburg, however.

[Stase]

Kathy,
I moved from Kenosha (WI) down to SC almost 3 years ago. I am 31 also but don't have any kids. The areas I would be wary of are: Blacksburg (where I am now) - most places in Cherokee County, I would think Greenville might be good but haven't been there. York is not so good. I bet you are from the Appleton area. And yes, they all sound nice on the phone but be careful - there are blackstabbers down here too. A lot of people aren't too nice to me when they hear me talk or find out I am from the North. I have gotten treated worse for being a Yankee or Northerner or Nordic or whatever they call me. However, Charlotte is very forgiving along with Fort Mill in SC.

The suggestion about Columbia is good. I think the job pay is better there too. That is one thing you really need to research before you decide where you are going to live. I took a 10k a year pay cut down here. Granted, things can be cheaper to live here but REALLY it all works out in the wash. Property taxes are tiny but you pay taxes on your vehicles, and depending on how new they are it can be upwards of $300 a year. Once a year. Not like $50 in WI. I have heard good things about the Myrtle Beach area and Charleston.

I suggest to avoid racism, or be subject to very little of it, you try for a bigger city. The smaller ones can have the small minded people with their rebel flags flying high!

[Stase]

And yes, steering clear of the east side of greenville/spartanburg would be great move. (Wish I would have known that!)

[Emeralds52376]

Stase,

Yes - I live in Appleton right now :-) And you're right there is some racism here - but unfortunately/fortunately I'm blind to it and that can be good and bad at times. My biggest concern is for my children - they are in favor a move to a warmer climate; but I don't want to make the change any more diffuclt that it would have to be.

I am very familiar with Kenosha; I lived in Milwaukee for some time and loved it!!!

I have heard that people from the North are not welcome at all...and that I should be weary of that as well. I am honestly so torn; I love the area - the climate.

I will research Columbia a little bit more and possibly North Carolina as well as Charleston. Thank you so much for your honest advice!

Thanks again!

[CarolinaBredChicagoan]

Originally Posted by Emeralds52376

Stase,

Yes - I live in Appleton right now :-) And you're right there is some racism here - but unfortunately/fortunately I'm blind to it and that can be good and bad at times. My biggest concern is for my children - they are in favor a move to a warmer climate; but I don't want to make the change any more diffuclt that it would have to be.

I am very familiar with Kenosha; I lived in Milwaukee for some time and loved it!!!

I have heard that people from the North are not welcome at all...and that I should be weary of that as well. I am honestly so torn; I love the area - the climate.

I will research Columbia a little bit more and possibly North Carolina as well as Charleston. Thank you so much for your honest advice!

Thanks again!

Claims of racism and "yankee hatred" are greatly exaggerated, in my opinion.

Columbia is the state capital and home of the University of SC, as well as many other colleges. It's a fairly open minded place with plenty of transplants. You might get some ribbing, but it's all in good fun. Don't worry about that.

As for racism, I grew up in a town 45 minutes from Columbia. It was poorer than Cola with a larger black population. I encountered some racism growing up (coming from both sides). The WORST racism I've encountered, though, has been in the Midwest. Maybe it's because people in the Midwest don't have as much of a history of living side by side with people of other races. There has only been a major black population in most midwestern cities for 50-100 years. In the South, it goes back a lot farther than that.

Some of the worst racism I've seen has been in places like Detroit, Chicago (esp the South Suburbs), Rockford, etc. Most major metro areas in the North (including places considered open minded like NYC) are very segregated, racially. I can't find info on the "segregation index" right now, but it supports the idea that cities in the north are often very segregated, while southern cities are generally more integrated.

Here's an article: Milwaukee is most segregated city: U.S. Census analysis - National Report | Jet | Find Articles at BNET.com

It names Milwaukee the most segregated city in the US.

PS: I should clarify that I live in Chicago now, and have for several years. I love Chicago, and really like Milwaukee and other parts of Wisconsin a great deal, too. I spend lots of time in the summer in Door County and Lake Wisconsin and way up on the Wolf River. I'm just trying to provide some balance.

[Emeralds52376]

CarolinaBred,

thank you for your insight and honesty - It was great to hear - and i think it's great that you can speak from both sides; so thanks!

[Chi2Midlands]

As a native of Chicago, I would second CarolinaBredChicagoan's remarks. The northern industrial cities are HIGHLY segregated, from New England to the Great Lakes. While the South may have had Jim Crow (an abominable injustice for sure), the North definitely has more spacial segregation (which is why busing was an issues as much in places like Hartford and Boston as it was in Charlotte). I think a big reason was the sudden arrival of blacks in the north during the "Great Migration" of the early 20th century, who were fleeing poverty and Jim Crow, and their moving into the industrial job market in dense, large cities. Many whites who were already living cheek-by-jowl in these packed neighborhoods did not/would not accept African-Americans living nearby (in the south, it was more rural, so I suppose having a more "mixed" population was tolerated because neighbors are much further apart, plus Jim Crow meant minorities couldn't vote, go to the same restaurants, etc.).

Also, don't forget that small incorporated towns across the Midwest were notorious for being "sundown towns" - with implicit or explicit policies that no blacks could remain in the such towns overnight. Downstate Illinois had many such places, for example.

Although I grew up in the near-northern suburbs of Chicago, we have family friends in the south suburbs. Sad to say, but white flight is alive and well over there. While some parts of the country, particularly suburbs in the Southeast US, are slowly integrating by race (class integration is much more spotty, unfortunately), Chicago's southern suburbs continue to experience white flight decade after decade. Except for pockets like Homewood and Flossmoor, as soon as a few middle-class blacks move in to a certain neighborhood, after a few years the tipping-point comes rapidly and middle-class whites move out. So whites move from older places like Alsip and Tinely Park to newer places like New Lenox and Frankfort. Some southern suburbs have become so emptied of any trace of middle-class stability, they are seen as extensions of Chicago proper's south side - towns like Harvey, Markham, Dixon, Phoenix, etc. Even relatively solid, middle-class, racially balanced towns like Matteson and Olympia Fields are steadily seeing their white populations flee further west into newer subdivisions in Will County (the aforementioned New Lenox, Frankfort, etc.). In contrast, I think there actually quite a few neighborhoods in suburban areas in the Southeast US that have healthy, balanced, stable middle-class, mixed-race areas that may actually stay that way for a while. Northeast Richland where I live is one such area - can you imagine a suburban school in Chicagoland, with half it's population African-American, even if they are middle-class, being supported by local whites for too long? Over here, by contrast, new subdivisions often attract whites, blacks, and others at the same time; one is not fleeing another. That is not to say white flight didn't or doesn't happen in Columbia, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, etc. - it definitely has and did. But the degree to which it happens today is much less. If anything, class-flight is the main problem. Indeed, class segregation is what I think is the bigger challenge of our time now.

Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan

Claims of racism and "yankee hatred" are greatly exaggerated, in my opinion.

Columbia is the state capital and home of the University of SC, as well as many other colleges. It's a fairly open minded place with plenty of transplants. You might get some ribbing, but it's all in good fun. Don't worry about that.

As for racism, I grew up in a town 45 minutes from Columbia. It was poorer than Cola with a larger black population. I encountered some racism growing up (coming from both sides). The WORST racism I've encountered, though, has been in the Midwest. Maybe it's because people in the Midwest don't have as much of a history of living side by side with people of other races. There has only been a major black population in most midwestern cities for 50-100 years. In the South, it goes back a lot farther than that.

Some of the worst racism I've seen has been in places like Detroit, Chicago (esp the South Suburbs), Rockford, etc. Most major metro areas in the North (including places considered open minded like NYC) are very segregated, racially. I can't find info on the "segregation index" right now, but it supports the idea that cities in the north are often very segregated, while southern cities are generally more integrated.

Here's an article: Milwaukee is most segregated city: U.S. Census analysis - National Report | Jet | Find Articles at BNET.com

It names Milwaukee the most segregated city in the US.

PS: I should clarify that I live in Chicago now, and have for several years. I love Chicago, and really like Milwaukee and other parts of Wisconsin a great deal, too. I spend lots of time in the summer in Door County and Lake Wisconsin and way up on the Wolf River. I'm just trying to provide some balance.

[waccamatt]

Originally Posted by Emeralds52376

Stase,

Yes - I live in Appleton right now :-) And you're right there is some racism here - but unfortunately/fortunately I'm blind to it and that can be good and bad at times. My biggest concern is for my children - they are in favor a move to a warmer climate; but I don't want to make the change any more diffuclt that it would have to be.

I am very familiar with Kenosha; I lived in Milwaukee for some time and loved it!!!

I have heard that people from the North are not welcome at all...and that I should be weary of that as well. I am honestly so torn; I love the area - the climate.

I will research Columbia a little bit more and possibly North Carolina as well as Charleston. Thank you so much for your honest advice!

Thanks again!

As a New Jersey native I can honestly tell you that the myth that people from the North are not welcome is just that - a myth. Now in small towns people tend to be suspicious of outsiders, but I don't think you'll experience much of that in the cities. I may occasionally get some good-natured ribbing about being a "yankee", but Columbia is a melting pot of people from all over.