What is holding Sumter back? (Columbia, Charleston: for rent, home, employment)

[CarolinaBredChicagoan]

Originally Posted by Rophlmao

Cherryvale is an example of white exit. It used to have many white owners and G.I. renters, but it started to go dark as the owners died off. That drove the G.I.s out, and the rest is history.

"Started to go dark"? Yeesh.

I don't really see Sumter as being a great example for the sort of white flight you see in, say, Detroit, because it's just not that big. It doesn't have quite the urban/suburban structure that larger cities have, and the areas kind of run together more. There are only so many areas to head to.

It was and is definitely evident in the schools. Wilson Hall and Thomas Sumter, as well as Laurence Manning and Clarendon Hall in Manning and Robert E Lee (the name says it all...) in Bishopville were all founded between 1964 and 1972 (during integration, busing, etc.)

I can say that there's a fair amount of the aforementioned brain drain. There just aren't many jobs in Sumter... and besides family, not all that many reasons to stay in Sumter if you have other options. Still, as I've said on this board many times, it wasn't a bad place to grow up.

[rubber_factory]

Originally Posted by Palmetto Heel

It isn't so much a trend as it is something that has already happened. The tipping point has been reached and there is no going back.

I guess. I know that some of the areas along Broad Street, east of Miller, were predominantly white in the 1950's and 1960's, and now they mostly aren't. I'm sure there has been steady white migration away from the city center since 1950. And I agree with Chicagoan, the private schools were a blatant white flight from integrated public schools.

But none of this convinces me that white flight is currently "the problem" with Sumter. I can think of a list of more pressing things, like crime, jobs, education, or entertainment.

[Palmetto Heel]

Originally Posted by rubber_factory

But none of this convinces me that white flight is currently "the problem" with Sumter. I can think of a list of more pressing things, like crime, jobs, education, or entertainment.

White flight goes hand-in-glove with the problems of crime, jobs, education, and entertainment. The cycle goes a little something like this:

A few upper middle class white people send their children to Wilson Hall because they perceive Sumter 17 schools as "bad". > Test scores at Sumter 17 schools fall because a few upper middle class white students left. > Other upper middle class white parents are withdraw their kids to Sumter 17 schools because test scores have fallen. > Repeat step 1.

Pretty soon anyone who can afford to put their kids in private school has done so and the public schools have gone to pot.

[Captain Worley]

They have gone to pot. That's a big affirmative on that.

[rubber_factory]

Originally Posted by Palmetto Heel

White flight goes hand-in-glove with the problems of crime, jobs, education, and entertainment. The cycle goes a little something like this:

A few upper middle class white people send their children to Wilson Hall because they perceive Sumter 17 schools as "bad". > Test scores at Sumter 17 schools fall because a few upper middle class white students left. > Other upper middle class white parents are withdraw their kids to Sumter 17 schools because test scores have fallen. > Repeat step 1.

Pretty soon anyone who can afford to put their kids in private school has done so and the public schools have gone to pot.

White flight leads to poor public school test scores, as you've shown. But I don't see how test scores lead to the city-wide problems of crime, jobs, education, and (lack of) entertainment. Test scores are just a measuring stick, and you're talking about shuffling around demographics to make the schools appear "better".

Your premise is that if all the Wilson Hall kids went to public schools, Sumter would have more/higher-paying jobs and lower crime? I don't get it.

[Ceezer]

Originally Posted by Captain Worley

They have gone to pot. That's a big affirmative on that.

My daughter is in 2nd grade, district 2. She tested, on a federal level, on a 6th grade level in reading last month. The test declared that if she were given the test 100 times she would score the same 99 of them.

The problem is not necessarily with the schools, but with lazy parents that leave it up to the schools to teach them everything and they don't want to put in any time at home. I grew up in a great school system in Ohio, one with test scores that top the nation every year. Despite that, my grandma rode my butt about homework and studying night after night. But parents these days want to selfishly spend all their time worrying about themselves, watching tv, dumping the kids off on someone else to go out, etc

Two years ago I was picking my daughter up from Kindergarten and heard another parent - excitedly, no less - tell her friend about how proud she was because her child was now writing their entire name. Well, yes, good for them. But bad for you... for making them wait that long to learn something as simple as this.

Maybe it's just me, I don't know. My wife gets on me because I'll drill her on things like square roots, which is obviously way outside her scope, but I'm of the belief that challenging her is what gives her the advantage. If I ask her stuff she already knows, what does she learn?

Anyway, I'm getting off-topic now. There may be some merit to test scores dropping when kids are pulled in favor of private schools, but I'm not completely sold on that idea. Well-off parents can have stupid kids, too. Just because they're in private school doesn't mean they're smart, just privileged. And just because others are in public school doesn't mean they're dumb.

[Akhenaton06]

Sumter doesn't have direct interstate access and it lacks major educational institutions of higher learning.

[nissanv8]

As a person of color who experience growing up here and can tell you a story or two,i really dont know how to take some of the comments on here like "started to go dark" but being from here i have heard worse. the question of race is going to always be that dirty little word thats going to keep this town in the dark.

[Woodlands]

How does Sumter rank when compared to comparable size cities in our state? The likely candidates would be Spartanburg (39K), Florence (30K), Rock Hill (49k), and NOW Mt Pleasant(47k) Sumter at (39k) though this number has been disputed by City Officials who contend the number is closer to 42K. It is not part of a Metro area like the aforementioned cities nor has an interestate access as do these peer cities. Yet the City is managing to remain relatively stable all these years. However; it seems that Sumter is in "competition" or is mentioned in the same breath as places such as Orangeburg (12k), Anderson (25k), Greenwood (22k), Hartsville (7k), and Camden (6k). The City seems like "Lord of the Big Towns" as opposed to being considered a on the level as one of the mid size cities in our State? I mention this in this thread because.. one of the issues that may be "holding Sumter back" from an image perspective could be various perception or misperceptions of the City visa vie similar size cities in the State?

[rubber_factory]

Originally Posted by Woodlands

How does Sumter rank when compared to comparable size cities in our state? The likely candidates would be Spartanburg (39K), Florence (30K), Rock Hill (49k), and NOW Mt Pleasant(47k) Sumter at (39k) though this number has been disputed by City Officials who contend the number is closer to 42K. It is not part of a Metro area like the aforementioned cities nor has an interestate access as do these peer cities. Yet the City is managing to remain relatively stable all these years. However; it seems that Sumter is in "competition" or is mentioned in the same breath as places such as Orangeburg (12k), Anderson (25k), Greenwood (22k), Hartsville (7k), and Camden (6k). The City seems like "Lord of the Big Towns" as opposed to being considered a on the level as one of the mid size cities in our State? I mention this in this thread because.. one of the issues that may be "holding Sumter back" from an image perspective could be various perception or misperceptions of the City visa vie similar size cities in the State?

You are focusing on city limit populations. In the state of SC, especially, city limit populations are not a good indication of how populated a metro area is.

In terms of MSAs, Sumter has about as many people as Orangeburg, and is about half the size of Florence.

South Carolina census statistical areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So no, I don't think it is a misperception - I think it is a reality that the Sumter area is much smaller than Spartanburg, Mt. Pleasant, and Rock Hill. I think we used to be in the ballpark with Florence, but like you say, it is that proximity to the interstate that caused their growth to outpace Sumter's.