UNC-Chapel Hill or USC-Columbia?

[rubber_factory]

Yeah. I'm a USC graduate. I cannot stand UNC, and I actually have to live among these arrogant, insufferable Tarheel people.

But as much as it pains me to say it, UNC does have a superior national reputation. The state of North Carolina puts the full force of its tax dollars in support of UNC-CH, and has done so for many years. The state of South Carolina has had too many institutions, duplicating services, undermining one another, and clamoring for too few tax dollars, for too long.

[CarolinaBredChicagoan]

Originally Posted by PawleysDude

USC is a decent school, but if your family member has the intellectual power to handle UNC, there really is very little reason to consider anywhere else.

Whoa whoa whoa.

While I understand where you're coming from, let's get something straight. You're correct in stating that UNC has the better reputation, on the whole. I said as much. However, don't think for a moment that those who complete USC programs don't have the "intellectual power to handle UNC". UNC isn't Harvard or the University of Chicago. It's a state school with thousands and thousands of students, which draws over 80 percent of its student body from the state of North Carolina.

It's a big state school. It's a pretty good big state school, but let's not blow things out of proportion.

In Chicago, where I live now, UNC is well-regarded, but known more for basketball than for academics. It's funny that up here, people think FAR more of UofI (Champaign-Urbana) than of other state schools, while North Carolinians tend to feel the same way about UNC. The truth is, both are fine schools, but neither packs the sort of prestige nationwide as either does regionally. At least not in my experience. Furthermore, I've known some true morons that have graduated from all of the above.

I stand by my assertion that the best way to know which school will be a better fit and go there.

[davey123]

Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan

Whoa whoa whoa.

While I understand where you're coming from, let's get something straight. You're correct in stating that UNC has the better reputation, on the whole. I said as much. However, don't think for a moment that those who complete USC programs don't have the "intellectual power to handle UNC". UNC isn't Harvard or the University of Chicago. It's a state school with thousands and thousands of students, which draws over 80 percent of its student body from the state of North Carolina.

It's a big state school. It's a pretty good big state school, but let's not blow things out of proportion.

In Chicago, where I live now, UNC is well-regarded, but known more for basketball than for academics. It's funny that up here, people think FAR more of UofI (Champaign-Urbana) than of other state schools, while North Carolinians tend to feel the same way about UNC. The truth is, both are fine schools, but neither packs the sort of prestige nationwide as either does regionally. At least not in my experience. Furthermore, I've known some true morons that have graduated from all of the above.

I stand by my assertion that the best way to know which school will be a better fit and go there.

Wow, this discussion has gotten pretty contentious. Yet, I do not understand why. This same topic is posted on the NC site and no one is arguing. There seems to be an overrall agreement that UNC-CH is the better school.

As a newbie to Columbia, I have noticed that people seem to get very upset if there is even a hint of something negative (or perceived to be negative) said about Columbia. At first, I thought this was more of an "in-state" phenomenon, involving an endogenous competition (or feud) between people from Charleston, Columbia, and Greeneville. But, I'm coming to realize that this extends far beyond that. Needless to say, it's all very, very interesting, indeed

Because I have no loyalties to NC or SC, I am going to attempt to give a somewhat neutral perspective. Before doing this however, I will say a little about my background, just to make my biases salient. I graduated 3 times at the collegiate level. Two times were from private, prestigious universities, and one time from a public prestigious university (yes, it was a public university that is ranked even higher than UNC-CH). I also used to be a professor. Of course, I left academia for greener pastures -- and have no regrets. However, I used to be a professor at a prestigious, private university. And, US News & World Reports ranks this university as one of the most prestigious and most selective in the nation. I mention all of this to suggest that my experience has given me an interesting vantage point on prestigious private vs. prestigious public universities. I know that from my experience, the public university that I attended (which was a large state university) was every bit as good, if not better, than the 3 private schools that I was affiliated with. So, being a large public university doesn't, in and of itself, make it less prestigious than Harvard, the University of Chicago, or any other prestigious private school. If you look at US News & World Reports rankings of graduate programs, you will see that UC-Berkeley and the University of Michigan do very well against all of the prestigious private schools. In fact, those 2 public schools are considered to be the peer schools of the Harvards, the Yales, and the what-nots.

I mentioned in an earlier posting that USC is a good university and UNC-CH is an excellent university. I base this on two things. One is that UNC-CH is an absolutely excellent research university, with a very strong national reputation. The difference in the quality of the 2 schools is not neglible. In fact, it is almost an apples and oranges comparison. Second, when I was a professor, I was on the undergraduate admissions committee, and also on the admissions committee for the graduate program in my department. Because the university that I taught at was very selective, they used a "weighting grid" for each applicant. One criterion that they looked at was the undergraduate program the student came from. From my experience, students that did their undergrads at UNC-CH were weighted the same as students who did their undergrads at the prestigious, private universities. That was not the case for students who did their undergrads and USC. This is important because it speaks to how academicians perceive the quality of the education of the 2 schools.

I will finish by giving the OP a general rule of thumb. When you have a choice between a good university and an excellent university, my experience has taught me that it is best to err on the side of excellence!

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by davey123

Wow, this discussion has gotten pretty contentious. Yet, I do not understand why. This same topic is posted on the NC site and no one is arguing. There seems to be an overrall agreement that UNC-CH is the better school.

Pretty much everyone is saying the same thing here. It was only when someone spoke ill of Columbia that things got a bit catty.

Personally, if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably pick UVA over both USC and UNC. I didn't apply to any of these schools, but I did get accepted to Emory, so I guess I didn't do too bad.

Even though the OP didn't mention it, I wonder if money is a factor. That could possibly sway the decision somewhat, especially in light of the economy and tuition hikes.

[PawleysDude]

While I understand where you're coming from, let's get something straight...

Don't get your panties in a wad. I didn't criticize USC and I did not claim that UNC "packs" national prestige, although I think that's debatable. In their annual rating, Kiplinger's ranked UNC-Chapel Hill #1 on its list of top public universities, based on "a combination of outstanding academic quality and an affordable price tag." USC was ranked 60th. I don't understand your comments about UNC having "thousands and thousands of students", since both schools' enrollments are right around 18,000. Of course, most of UNC is in-state students, given the fact that admission is highly competitive and NC has a long history of giving preference to students of families whose taxes are financing the school.

Regardless, your assertion that "the difference in quality is negligible..." doesn't hold water -

% of freshmen with verbal SAT's over 700
UNC - 22% (source) USC - 6% (source)

% of freshmen with math SAT's over 700
UNC - 29% USC - 8%

Admission rate
UNC - 34% USC - 63%

SAT scores may or may not forecast success or intelligence, but they are one of the few measurable bases for comparison. You're dead-on in suggesting that prospective students should visit schools to decide what's the best fit, but the OP asked for opinions comparing the two schools. My opinion is that there is really no comparison if the student is interested in getting the best possible education. Of course, considering the OP's nickname is chapelheels23, he may know that already and just be jerking our chains....

[CarolinaBredChicagoan]

Originally Posted by PawleysDude

Don't get your panties in a wad. I didn't criticize USC and I did not claim that UNC "packs" national prestige, although I think that's debatable.

Read my post again. Nothing about what I said disputes that UNC is a better school on paper. My problem was with your statement about "intellectual power". It's silly.

Again, I am not a USC alum. I don't live in Columbia. I'll be starting a PhD program at USC in a few months, but this conversation is about undergrad programs, not grad school. As an undergrad, I applied to and was accepted to USC in-state and UNC out-of-state and attended neither. At the end of the day, UNC is a better school than USC (on paper, anyway), but neither are exactly Ivy League, so there's no need to blow things out of proportion.

That's all I'm saying.

[waccamatt]

I agree with the above. I applied to, and was accepted, to Maryland, UNC and USC when I graduated from high school. I ended up at USC, but I could have just as easily gone to one of the other schools. I chose USC because of the reputation of its business school and because I fell in love with Columbia.

[chapelheels23]

Thanks for all the great tips. This could've helped a little more if I had given a little more info on him. My nephew at this point, just wants to be a teacher and coach. He's kinda what you would call a "country" boy. Haha. I dont know if this would make a difference on which school he chooses. Thanks again.

[waccamatt]

Originally Posted by chapelheels23

Thanks for all the great tips. This could've helped a little more if I had given a little more info on him. My nephew at this point, just wants to be a teacher and coach. He's kinda what you would call a "country" boy. Haha. I dont know if this would make a difference on which school he chooses. Thanks again.

I don't know that it really would make a difference because both Carolina's certainly have a significant rural element. Since he is going to be an athlete I will mention that USC's athletes typically lead or finish second to Vanderbilt in the SEC in academic success, which I think shows the commitment to success in that area. The link below is the latest report.

SC Sports Source.com