Charlotte or Columbia? (Lexington, York, Saluda: work, university, nightlife)

[waccamatt]

In the 2000 census, Charlotte's urbanized area population was 758,927 while Columbia's was 420,537 - less than double the size. I couldn't find any estimates of UA population in the interim.

Fairfield County should definitely be a part of Columbia's metro. Many, many people that live in Fairfield County work in Columbia and vice versa. The only county that was a dubious addition to Columbia's metro was Saluda County, but it only has a population of 19,000. Newberry County is not in Columbia's MSA, but it probably will be in 2010.

P.S. Since when does a resident's "desire" have anything to do with what metro they are considered a part of. I'd rather Richland County be separate from South Carolina; does that mean I shouldn't be included in SC's population?

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by Charleston native

Keep in mind guys, Columbia only reached 700K because they added four counties to the metro area, and the reasons for this are highly questionable. Fairfield County was one that should never have been added. Commuting patterns would actually have some residents there going to Charlotte, not Cola. Adding Newberry is somewhat understandable, but many residents there do not want to be associated with Cola...they'd rather be their own area.

So while Cola has the Census Bureau's "seal of approval", its actual metro is questionable. Charlotte has far more reasonable arguments for its additions. A better analysis for comparisons would be Cola's and Charlotte's urban areas. I know Cola has about 450,000 in its UA. What about Charlotte?

Columbia didn't add any counties to its MSA; the Census Bureau did. Those counties got added because the commuter figures justify them being added. And there are several rural counties that have some residents traveling to one primary county and others to another for employment, but there's no way you could make the argument that Fairfield County should be in Charlotte's MSA, especially when Chester County, which is closer to Charlotte, is only in the CSA (and barely so), and Lancaster County, which actually borders Mecklenburg, was also reassigned from the MSA to the CSA. Fairfield County will be even more tied to Richland County when and if the Google server farm gets up and running in Blythewood (the go ahead was given to construct on the land). It makes much sense to me that those other largely rural counties which have almost next to nothing of an employment base were added to Columbia's MSA. If anything is to be questioned, it might be the standards that the Census Bureau uses, but nothing is being manipulated in order for Columbia to post higher numbers.

Newberry is in the CSA, not the MSA (it is its own micropolitan area). And if they don't want to be associated with Columbia, then why do they have a significant amount of people traveling into Richland County for work? That's one of the things that's wrong with this state. Smaller communities want to take advantage of what larger communities provide and their residents pay for, but they don't want to be "associated" with the larger community, much less pay for the services they legitimately use.

[sandlapper]

It's like what I was saying earlier. I don't understand why it's okay for Charlotte to have a metro poopulation larger than what the census recognizes, but Columbia for some reason is supposed to be smaller than what the census says? Why is that?

[waccamatt]

Yes, why is that?

[sandlapper]

Yeah, It's like nobody believes that Columbia is growing at a significantly fast rate. Granted I understand and I don't think anyone will dispute that its not growing as fast as the Carolinas "crown jewel" but it has been growing at a pretty good rate.

From 2000-2006 it grew 8.7% that's pretty significant, 56,500 people in 6 years is higher than the national average. Again it's not as fast as Charlotte but I don't think that was the point either. And most of those people are not moving to Newberry, Saluda, Calhoun, or even Fairfield Counties. The majority of Columbia's MSA growth has been in either Lexington, Richland, or Kershaw Counties.

[Charleston native]

Originally Posted by waccamatt

In the 2000 census, Charlotte's urbanized area population was 758,927 while Columbia's was 420,537 - less than double the size. I couldn't find any estimates of UA population in the interim.

Fairfield County should definitely be a part of Columbia's metro. Many, many people that live in Fairfield County work in Columbia and vice versa. The only county that was a dubious addition to Columbia's metro was Saluda County, but it only has a population of 19,000. Newberry County is not in Columbia's MSA, but it probably will be in 2010.

P.S. Since when does a resident's "desire" have anything to do with what metro they are considered a part of. I'd rather Richland County be separate from South Carolina; does that mean I shouldn't be included in SC's population?

I highly doubt that Fairfield as a large number of commuters in Richland or Cola proper. My wife has friends and family who live in Winnsboro, and the town along with county are worlds apart from Cola. Many residents work there in the county while others commute to Rock Hill, Chester, Lancaster, and even Camden...the latter probably explains the bureaucratic hoop-jumping for Cola to even get that county. Fairfield is just as dubious as Saluda; and regardless if the county is 19,000, it still effects the growth rate and the total amount of people acquired. 56,000 is indeed impressive, but two dubious counties had their population added.

In response to another post, I do not believe Fairfield should be in any metro. It is a rural county. Growth patterns are not going there, they're heading up I-77 to Blythewood and into Kershaw County. That is where you'll see more growth when Google decides to build in Blythewood.

Saluda is also a completely rural county with virtually no ties to Cola. Again, it was inter-county commuting that allowed for the addition.

I do not doubt that Cola is growing at a very healthy pace. However, I do question the methods for how counties are acquired by an MSA...sheesh, if 10 people from a much more rural county like Allendale drove to Saluda, they'd even add that one to the MSA! Then Cola MSA could acquire about half the state, which is ludicrous.

[Akhenaton06]

^Those are many of the same complaints lodged against Atlanta. Many of the counties included in its MSA rely on one of the outlying counties instead of one of the core counties. This is also how largely rural Anson County, NC, which doesn't border Mecklenburg County, gets included in the Charlotte MSA. So this is hardly a Columbia-specific phenomenon, but it's made to seem as if Columbia has this devious plot to gobble up surrounding counties in its MSA, which is far from the case. The fact of the matter is that Columbia is in a central location and it is the sole dominant city in its georgraphical location. You don't see this phenomenon in the Lowcountry, as Charleston is on the coast, or in the Upstate, which has three urban areas of influence, so Columbia (unfairly) catches flack for its advantages in this regard.

There are no more rural counties in the vicinity to be added to the MSA, so that's not a concern. The only possibility would be Lee County residents traveling into Kershaw County, but I think they would be more inclined to drive into Sumter, Darlington, or Florence counties for employment.

The counties that are in the MSA satisfy the requirments for MSA inclusion. So if anything is dubious, it isn't the addition of those counties, as they must satisfy the requirments.

[waccamatt]

I stand by my assertion that Fairfield County fully deserves to be in Columbia's MSA. No less than 6 people (out of 150) at my office commute from Fairfield County and we have several who's spouses commute from Richland to plants in Fairfield County.

The 56,000 growth since 2000 just includes gross growth in the msa, not the additional population from added counties. When people from other parts of South Carolina constantly attack Columbia's population figures as being inaccurate on the high side, that has to make me go hmmmmmm.

[Charleston native]

Matt, how do you know that the 56,000 figure did not include the newer counties? Gross numbers are the total population accumulated since 2000. I'm not "attacking" Cola's growth, I'm just questioning how it is measured and the amount. There's no doubt that Cola is growing, especially where I live (NE Cola), but the rate and amount come into question when dubious counties are added. I think it raises a legitimate question, especially when the area has touted as adding that amount of people in 7 years.

If only other cities like Wilmington, Charleston, Savannah, and Jacksonville could have the advantages of adding rural counties to their MSA! With Cola, Charlotte, and Atlanta doing this, Chas should've had Orangeburg, Colleton, and Georgetown Counties by now, for example.

[waccamatt]

I know because it is a fact. Kershaw County added around 50K to the metro, Calhoun 14K, Fairfield 25K and Saluda added 19K. The 56,000 is the additional population in all of those counties since 2000. Most of that growth has been in Richland, Lexington and Kershaw as the other 3 counties are either remaining even or losing population.