Columbus Georgia Peachtree Mall on the way out?

[Sam552311]

Originally Posted by aboutmetro

Sam, you're right, sort of... Though Johnson's question was, the city's been on hold for 25 years. I simply pointed out the public projects that have occurred in that time period. He can back none of his statements by any fact, period.

But back to your statement. I think it would be foolish for any government to make any big investments in infrastructure or facilities pre-BRAC. It's impossible to know where to put things until we know where the populations will land. That is to say, if the Muscogee County School District built 5 new schools and only 3 were needed there would be a taxpayer revolt. This market is divided among many city, county and even two state governments. So who pays for what totally depends on where BRAC populations end up living.

Many builders were approached by Chamber and Benning reps in 2004 & 05 and asked how many and how soon could housing be built, and where. Many showed where they could build. A few jumped out and built a lot as if the soldiers were coming tomorrow. Not to blame them, the reps made it sound eminent. Then there was the housing bubble burst. Now developers have a very hard time getting financing and certainly don't have money to put units on the ground to sit for a year until the populations begin to arrive.

Not to mention consumer credit to purchase homes is more stringent. So people who might have been buyers even two years ago will likely now be renters. That changes the game totally. That's a different set of developers and a different footprint. Multi-family (typically) can only go where there is water and sewer infrastructure and services (fire) available, and then only where zoning allows.

So if you look at single-family permits, right now, Russell and Phenix are issuing more permits than any other jurisdiction in the market. But what will the credit market be in a year or so when populations arrive? Will they be buyers or renters. That's data that's been difficult to come by and that is critical to both private and public planners. I'm afraid what might happen is that housing stock will be absorbed in a very wide area. And as housing closer in becomes available, then populations will begin to move closer in. But the picture won't come into focus for 2 to 4 years after the populations arrive.

This makes more sense than the other poster AtlCol pretty much calling BRAC a slam dunk.
A little bit overzealous to win an argument obviously.

[aboutmetro]

Originally Posted by Sam552311

This makes more sense...

It's ironic really, BRAC is happening at both an ideal time and at a really bad time. Ideal, because it is and will be an economic engine for recovery in the metro area. At a bad time because the ability of private sector developers and service providers to ramp up and local governments to prepare is severely hampered by current economic conditions. As was mentioned in this thread somewhere, I believe, the Muscogee County (Columbus) School District did request Fed funds to build schools. I'm glad they were denied, because as I said, it would be a mistake IMHO to jump out and build this stuff before it's known where it'll be needed. Naturally, retailers will go in wherever 'rooftops' justify the need.

Unfortunately, the school kids will probably end up in a lot of temp trailer classrooms, roads will be very over crowded, especially in some of these fast-growing suburban counties like Russell, AL that is very ill prepared for the impacts of growth. But, it will be resolved in time.

[Sam552311]

Originally Posted by aboutmetro

It's ironic really, BRAC is happening at both an ideal time and at a really bad time. Ideal, because it is and will be an economic engine for recovery in the metro area. At a bad time because the ability of private sector developers and service providers to ramp up and local governments to prepare is severely hampered by current economic conditions. As was mentioned in this thread somewhere, I believe, the Muscogee County (Columbus) School District did request Fed funds to build schools. I'm glad they were denied, because as I said, it would be a mistake IMHO to jump out and build this stuff before it's known where it'll be needed. Naturally, retailers will go in wherever 'rooftops' justify the need.

Unfortunately, the school kids will probably end up in a lot of temp trailer classrooms, roads will be very over crowded, especially in some of these fast-growing suburban counties like Russell, AL that is very ill prepared for the impacts of growth. But, it will be resolved in time.

Hopefully AtlCol is able to understand that rather than arguing for the sake of arguing.

[ATLCOL1]

Originally Posted by Sam552311

Hopefully AtlCol is able to understand that rather than arguing for the sake of arguing.

As a developer, I understand perfectly. Never said I didn't. This is the best thing to hit Columbus in years, but it unfortunately is happening in the worst time in economic history since the Great Depression. So, in my opinion, Columbus will benefit greatly over the next 2-3 years and for many years to come. This will help pull Columbus out of this recession much faster than other cities across the country. Remember, Columbus is one of only a handful of cities across the country that is expected to see positive job growth in 2009.

[Sam552311]

Originally Posted by ATLCOL1

As a developer, I understand perfectly. Never said I didn't. This is the best thing to hit Columbus in years, but it unfortunately is happening in the worst time in economic history since the Great Depression. So, in my opinion, Columbus will benefit greatly over the next 2-3 years and for many years to come. This will help pull Columbus out of this recession much faster than other cities across the country. Remember, Columbus is one of only a handful of cities across the country that is expected to see positive job growth in 2009.

Some of your previous posts do not reflect this understanding at all and are very confusing.
You say you understand but never mention the negative impact of BRAC as in overcrowded classrooms and roads not mention the overall burden to city taxpayers.
Are these facts or your personal opinions?
How do you know for certain that any of these will ever bear fruit just because you are a developer?
Something just doesn't seem to ring true here.
Please clarify.

[Sam552311]

Originally Posted by Sam552311

Some of your previous posts do not reflect this understanding at all and are very confusing.
You say you understand but never mention the negative impact of BRAC as in overcrowded classrooms and roads not mention the overall burden to city taxpayers.
Are these facts or your personal opinions?
How do you know for certain that any of these will ever bear fruit just because you are a developer?
Something just doesn't seem to ring true here.
Please clarify.

No answer?

[ATLCOL1]

Originally Posted by Sam552311

No answer?

The facts presented suffice. However, growth of this size will have negative consequences. Schools for sure (unless SPLOST is passed) and increased traffic. Other than that, it is creating thousands of jobs and bringing tons of money to the city. BRAC will be the best thing to hit this area, as well as Georgia, for years to come until the nations economy rebounds.

[Sam552311]

Originally Posted by ATLCOL1

The facts presented suffice. However, growth of this size will have negative consequences. Schools for sure (unless SPLOST is passed) and increased traffic. Other than that, it is creating thousands of jobs and bringing tons of money to the city. BRAC will be the best thing to hit this area, as well as Georgia, for years to come until the nations economy rebounds.

Thousands and tons are not facts but rather opinions.
I will agree with the other posters that Columbus is in bad shape financially and BRAC will not produce said results.
The local paper reflects this day after day.

[Sam552311]

Originally Posted by Bjohnson23

Not compared to other similar sized cities..and late in the game as well.
Besides those projects were 10 plus years ago long before current BRAC announcement.
Where's the Beef Metro?
Sidewalks for kids when 99 percent don't walk to school etc due to parents safety concerns.
The city broke wind again when they put up crosswalk buttons all over town and they are hardly ever used.
Schools have needed to be replaced long before 1997(some from the 50's!!)
Hundreds of thousands at the Civic Center?....it only holds 10k full and doesn't happen often if at all.
Macon was offered and refused to do the Olympic softball so Columbus got suckered into it especially when the Olympics dropped softball after 96. They have sit nearly idle since then. I think our mayor must have been the only one who didn't know that was coming...He was always big on his legacy..lol
And seriously Columbus is FAR from one of the safest cities around......ask any honest truthful local police or sheriff.

I remember the terrible Olympic fiasco too.
They fell for the old bait and switch from Macon.