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Old 04-14-2016, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,794 posts, read 12,791,630 times
Reputation: 5467

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Big difference between local and state/federal. At least local government is extorting locally earned money.

Why doesn't OSU count as government too by the way? Are we forgetting what the "S" stands for?

Your level of dishonesty is repugnant to me. I don't see what the big deal is by saying "hey, Columbus gets a ton of money from places that aren't Columbus. That's not fair. I don't even think we need it." Though to be fair, Columbus really DOES need the government propping it up. Nobody wanted to live their until the state started expanding. Cleveland would be way better off without government dependency.
Are you sure about that? Because city budgets rely on both state and federal dollars in many ways. And it isn't just direct government or public education, either. What about manufacturing subsidies and bailouts, which I have absolutely no doubt that Cleveland benefits from? That's public money too, right? What about the Cleveland Fed? Its port and airports? How much public financing do those receive, whether directly or indirectly through subsidized construction from ODOT or federal aviation dollars? You want to start chipping away at Columbus' economy because it serves your agenda, but Cleveland is no shining example of austerity.
I have not been dishonest about a single thing. I don't deny Columbus benefits from public dollars. Of course it does. I am just not going accept your absolute BS that it is the only city that does, or that anyone there should feel guilty about it when it is common practice EVERYWHERE. So spare me your outrage, because it hasn't been earned. Practice what you preach and demand your own cities live by the rules you want others to, or don't bother, because I'm not biting.
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Old 04-14-2016, 11:22 AM
 
636 posts, read 395,181 times
Reputation: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Yeah, state government and the resulting multiplier effect is not massively important to the downtown Columbus economy. Rubbish to make such a claim IMO.

Just consider the impact of the state retirement fund operations in Columbus, and all of the organizations and lobbyists with headquarters in Columbus. Law firms are greatly aggrandized in Columbus by the presence of the state capital.

Just PERS has 3,700 relatively high paid employees and about $100 billion in assets managed from Columbus.
JP Morgan Chase has 20,000 employees in Columbus managing $2.3 trillion is assets.

Yes, Columbus has a lot of government jobs but the area economy is more diverse than you think.

JP Morgan 20K employees
OhioHealth 20K
OSU 17K
Nationwide 13K
Honda 11K
L Brands 8K
Huntington 5K
Cardinal Health 4K
AEP 3K
Alliance Data 3K
PNC 3K
A&F 2.5K
Express Scripts 2.5K
Whirlpool 2.3K
GAP 2.2K
Battelle 2.2K
DHL 2.2K
Abbott 2K
State Farm 2K
Then there are another ~20 companies with between 1K-2K employees.
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Old 04-14-2016, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,794 posts, read 12,791,630 times
Reputation: 5467
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Another straw-man rant.

Clearly, Columbus benefits tremendously from being the state capital. The constant influx of state tax dollars from the rest of the state creates an undeniable economic multiplier effect.

Yet Columbus clearly has many other economic mainstays, including its success in retail and consumer services (Wendy's, Bob Evans, White Castle, etc.)

Nobody, except in your exaggerated, persecuted imagination, believes "wholeheartedly" that Columbus' success is at the "unquestionable detriment" of the rest of the state.

That's just your frenzied, straw man rant.

What I initially said is that the rest of Ohio may at some time demand the decentralization of state government. Cloud and virtual communication technology may facilitate this.

What clearly is not a level playing field is the toll structure of the "Republican Toll Road" in northern Ohio. The leveraging of the Ohio Turnpike and even the continued existence of the Ohio Turnpike is detrimental to the northern Ohio economy and therefore the entire Ohio economy. Yet it has been championed by central and southern Ohio politicians.

You shamelessly attribute statements to others that they never made. I never mentioned Ohio State or Ohio State football. As I've said repeatedly, I mentioned Urban Meyer in relation to pension fund salaries, which, although very high, are dwarfed by Meyer's compensation.

Do you constantly in your everyday life twist persons' comments and put words in their mouths? In my case, you repeatedly attribute comments and opinions to me that I never made. Then you eviscerate these imaginary opinions. It's sickening and shameful.

The point is that state pension funds don't have to be headquartered in Columbus. Admittedly, given the investment in infrastructure and personnel, they likely never will be moved, but this doesn't detract from the their immense benefit to the Columbus economy.

Once again, the point isn't whether the pension funds provide a state-wide benefit. The point is that they generate a massive multiplier impact for Columbus.

As noted in earlier posts, greater Cleveland raises local taxes to pay for many local government jobs that don't exist in Greater Columbus, especially in mass transit, and not just in Cuyahoga County.

Additionally, having state legislative and administrative functions in Columbus, as well as management of the state pension funds, generates considerable private employment.

Cleveland RTA has a 1 percent sales tax compared to a 1/2 percent sales tax for COTA in Columbus.

Despite your obfuscation and denial, it's patently obvious that Columbus has many thousands of state jobs largely financed by the rest of Ohio. I've documented this in previous posts.

Just the fact that almost all Ohio government pension plans are managed in Ohio is the most glaring example, a largely unknown component of the Columbus economy in addition to the large contributions made by the legislative and administrative branches of government.

You apparently want to deny that these jobs exist, or that they are financed by revenues collected state-wide.

I have never seen so many people be so salty and so strongly cling to a belief that they have, so far, been unable to support. Your basic premise is that you're right and I should just accept that, and if I don't, I am a huge liar and in denial and a government-loving leftist. Nah. I asked for some links or something, and you have provided nothing beyond the stuff about pensions. I would say let's agree to disagree, but I know this will never end. It will come up in more threads down the road, and it will probably get even more common. Oh well, people believe what they want. It is the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The only question is, which one of us is the insane one?
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Old 04-14-2016, 11:38 AM
 
7,148 posts, read 4,115,254 times
Reputation: 3620
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I have never seen so many people be so salty and so strongly cling to a belief that they have, so far, been unable to support. Your basic premise is that you're right and I should just accept that, and if I don't, I am a huge liar and in denial and a government-loving leftist. Nah. I asked for some links or something, and you have provided nothing beyond the stuff about pensions. I would say let's agree to disagree, but I know this will never end. It will come up in more threads down the road, and it will probably get even more common. Oh well, people believe what they want. It is the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The only question is, which one of us is the insane one?
We have supported our arguments, especially in comparison to you, who seemingly wants to deny that Columbus has many thousands of state jobs well beyond those elsewhere in Ohio and largely paid for state revenues. Don't you understand why your ridiculousness is infuriating?

Let's reiterate the facts in the Columbus Dispatch article linked in post 47.

Excluding university and hospital state jobs, Franklin County has over 41 percent of state employment, or 21,500 jobs. Cuyahoga County has 6,500 state jobs.

State jobs shift to central Ohio | The Columbus Dispatch

As noted in prior posts, the preponderance of the higher paid state jobs, such as the state pension jobs, are located in Franklin County.

We repeatedly buttress our arguments with facts, while you engage in straw man assaults and claims of persecution. Typical.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,932 posts, read 6,864,611 times
Reputation: 6673
Yep. I'm out. You can only lead a horse to water.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:54 PM
 
636 posts, read 395,181 times
Reputation: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Yep. I'm out. You can only lead a horse to water.
Yep. He just dropped 9 of the 10 counties that make up the Columbus MSA, rolled OSU employees into being part of running the state's government, and eliminated 3 or 4 major Columbus hospitals' jobs to massage the facts to fit his point.
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,794 posts, read 12,791,630 times
Reputation: 5467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clever nickname here View Post
Yep. He just dropped 9 of the 10 counties that make up the Columbus MSA, rolled OSU employees into being part of running the state's government, and eliminated 3 or 4 major Columbus hospitals' jobs to massage the facts to fit his point.
Despite the annoying reading comprehension problem, all your tears are delicious. Definitely salty, but delicious.

Keep up the victim complex you guys. Whatever gets you through your day.

And yeah, in case it isn't clear, I'm not going to be playing this game anymore. I can't help you guys be happy with where you live or where you're from, or make the local economy work better or your city leadership not suck so, so badly. Sooner or later, taking responsibility for your own crap is just a part of life. I have long thought that if you really believed your respective cities were so much more awesome than Columbus, there would no reason to be here having this dumb, repetitive debate. You would just be out enjoying how awesome it was, and you would just *know* that it was better. You wouldn't ever need to come here to stew in your salty hate on Columbus. Yet you all do that pretty regularly. Now, I'm no psychologist, but given my knack of pushing people's buttons to the degree that I can, I think I have a good understanding about people in general, and that all strikes me as a wee bit suspicious. Thou doth protest way too much, and it gives away the story. But hey, at least in this story, I get to play the villain, and the villain, if nothing else, always has the most fun.

Last edited by jbcmh81; 04-14-2016 at 08:15 PM..
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:36 PM
 
7,148 posts, read 4,115,254 times
Reputation: 3620
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Despite the annoying reading comprehension problem, all your tears are delicious. Definitely salty, but delicious.

Keep up the victim complex you guys. Whatever gets you through your day.

And yeah, in case it isn't clear, I'm not going to be playing this game anymore. I can't help you guys be happy with where you live or where you're from, or make the local economy work better or your city leadership not suck so, so badly. Sooner or later, taking responsibility for your own crap is just a part of life. I have long thought that if you really believed your respective cities were so much more awesome than Columbus, there would no reason to be here having this dumb, repetitive debate. You would just be out enjoying how awesome it was, and you would just *know* that it was better. You wouldn't ever need to come here to stew in your salty hate on Columbus. Yet you all do that pretty regularly. Now, I'm no psychologist, but given my knack of pushing people's buttons to the degree that I can, I think I have a good understanding about people in general, and that all strikes me as a wee bit suspicious. Thou doth protest way too much, and it gives away the story. But hey, at least in this story, I get to play the villain, and the villain, if nothing else, always has the most fun.
Your holier-than-thou, hubristic posts are tiresome.

The bottom line is that you refuse to acknowledge the massive benefit to Columbus from being the state capital. Not once have you addressed the multiplier effect that results from having over ten thousand well-paying, recession-resistant jobs supported by taxpayers elsewhere in Ohio.

Nobody can talk about the reality that is Columbus without your reality-denying, obfuscations dominating the discussion.

My comment in post 39 was never refuted. In fact, you never addressed the thousands of Nationwide Medicare jobs.

<< A specific concern for downtown Columbus is that much of its downtown economy is dependent on state government. This may be quicksand in coming decades if other cities seek the dispersion of state services facilitated by cloud-based solutions. Additionally, it would be interesting to know how much of downtown Columbus employment is related to Nationwide Medicare operations, which also could be quicksand in coming decades for several reasons, such as more advanced networks with artificial intelligence.>>

It's fascinating how the purveyors of falsehoods in city-data forums so often attack the discussion as "dumb" and question why other posters would challenge their warped representations of reality instead of enjoying life. Of course, these purveyors of falsehoods never question their own, overwhelming posting activity.

Candidly, my posts were just about Columbus, and it was you who dragged Cleveland into the debate.

I have no hate for Columbus, contrary to your repeated assertions to the contrary. It's utterly despicable that several Columbus posters would interpret factual discussions as "hate."

The fact remains that Columbus, especially its downtown area, receives a massive multiplier effect from relatively high-paid jobs paid for by taxes collected state-wide. Fact, not "hate."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_multiplier_effect
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,932 posts, read 6,864,611 times
Reputation: 6673
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Your holier-than-thou, hubristic posts are tiresome.

The bottom line is that you refuse to acknowledge the massive benefit to Columbus from being the state capital. Not once have you addressed the multiplier effect that results from having over ten thousand well-paying, recession-resistant jobs supported by taxpayers elsewhere in Ohio.

Nobody can talk about the reality that is Columbus without your reality-denying, obfuscations dominating the discussion.

My comment in post 39 was never refuted. In fact, you never addressed the thousands of Nationwide Medicare jobs.

<< A specific concern for downtown Columbus is that much of its downtown economy is dependent on state government. This may be quicksand in coming decades if other cities seek the dispersion of state services facilitated by cloud-based solutions. Additionally, it would be interesting to know how much of downtown Columbus employment is related to Nationwide Medicare operations, which also could be quicksand in coming decades for several reasons, such as more advanced networks with artificial intelligence.>>

It's fascinating how the purveyors of falsehoods in city-data forums so often attack the discussion as "dumb" and question why other posters would challenge their warped representations of reality instead of enjoying life. Of course, these purveyors of falsehoods never question their own, overwhelming posting activity.

Candidly, my posts were just about Columbus, and it was you who dragged Cleveland into the debate.

I have no hate for Columbus, contrary to your repeated assertions to the contrary. It's utterly despicable that several Columbus posters would interpret factual discussions as "hate."

The fact remains that Columbus, especially its downtown area, receives a massive multiplier effect from relatively high-paid jobs paid for by taxes collected state-wide. Fact, not "hate."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_multiplier_effect
I, for one, would be very interested to see what kind of interesting and unique city Columbus would be if it weren't for the government doldrums holding it back from innovating. I guess I like and care about Columbus though, unlike the people on here who love the status quo and don't mind if Columbus fails in the future.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:03 PM
 
368 posts, read 519,259 times
Reputation: 333
All state capitals by their nature have government jobs located there.In the 80's and 90's Ohio tried decentralization,moved agencies across the state out of Cbus,it proved alot more expensive,was deemed a failure
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