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Old 04-20-2015, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,767,534 times
Reputation: 5459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplsite View Post
I dunno about Park Street, but it is closer than ever to being gentrified. An Anthropologie opened there, so if you didn't know before...but there are still some quality places but they dot the strip rather than take up several blocks. Sad as it may be, this is what it's taking for Columbus to grow up and be a real city, not just N High St. Main in OTE should already look like Parsons or Oak, W Broad in Franklinton and Hilltop have lots of walkable storefronts, except there's nothing worth going to in most. Hell, Liz Lessner had to yet again be the one to get the ball rolling on W Broad with Dirty Frank's II. Columbus has too many urban business districts sitting dormant: it's actually impressive in a depressing way when you add up how many miles they total (Cleveland, Parsons, etc) and how little there is. While we'll mourn the good old days it'll mean that Columbus will finally have to move on beyond having token hip neighborhoods.
You really have a fetish for Liz Lessner, but she's not some kind of neighborhood panacea. It's not like she moves a business into an area and suddenly there's an explosion of new construction and business when before there was none. If she moves into an area, it's because the momentum there has already started and she's taking advantage of it, not the other way around. DFII didn't happen until after the casino/West Broad/Georgesville activity and the start of increased Broad Street bus service. The Tap Room is not even open yet, and that's in Franklinton, years after the city got the ball rolling and other projects were already being announced. And anything in the Short North/Downtown was concurrent with existing activity, not preceding it, even Betty's. I know you're president of her fan club, but stop acting like she's single-handedly rebuilding urban Columbus, because it's seriously overstating the case while simultaneously disrespecting the true pioneers of revitalization.

Parsons is seeing a lot of activity now, so why you keep mentioning it as some ignored corridor is a mystery.

Cleveland Avenue through Linden is terrible, but that's largely because Linden is terrible. There are pockets here and there that have potential, but you have to fix a whole lot of other problems unrelated to Cleveland's building stock to be able to attract investment. This is no simple task, and apparently no city on the planet has been able to figure out how to not have at least one terrible neighborhood. Certainly MSP has it's own share, much to your own denial and chagrin.

In the end, the number of urban neighborhoods in Columbus that are being ignored in terms of revitalization is steadily shrinking. However, you will always complain that the opposite is true and believe that complex problems can be immediately fixed with minimal effort. That's just your nature, and in some ways, a lot like Cleveland Avenue... a complex problem that no amount of talk is ever going to fix.
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Old 04-20-2015, 12:30 PM
 
Location: SF,CA
170 posts, read 365,921 times
Reputation: 199
Let's be clear that being privately owned does not make a business unique or interesting. It also doesn't prevent an area from being cookie cutter and looking like any other trendy strip in your average bland North American city. I'm all for independently owned shops and restaurants but that doesn't give you a free pass to avoid coming up with a fresh concept. IMO TSN is a pleasant area, it's just not what I would call unique. I remember it being much more of an interesting alternative to rest of the Columbus, not so much these days.
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,767,534 times
Reputation: 5459
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightiesfan View Post
Let's be clear that being privately owned does not make a business unique or interesting. It also doesn't prevent an area from being cookie cutter and looking like any other trendy strip in your average bland North American city. I'm all for independently owned shops and restaurants but that doesn't give you a free pass to avoid coming up with a fresh concept. IMO TSN is a pleasant area, it's just not what I would call unique. I remember it being much more of an interesting alternative to rest of the Columbus, not so much these days.
What is a "fresh concept"? Pretty much every conceivable idea has been done before in the restaurant/retail business, so what you're really just talking about are different variations of previous concepts. You're basically just kind of being a snob.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:31 PM
 
Location: SF,CA
170 posts, read 365,921 times
Reputation: 199
I think it's great that you love Columbus and The Short North, I like it too. The fact that you can't take any criticism of the place is a bit strange and makes one wonder if you're on some sort of payroll. I'll accept that I'm "just kind of being a snob" if you accept that you're just kind of basic.
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:20 PM
 
Location: MPLS
1,064 posts, read 1,032,536 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
You really have a fetish for Liz Lessner, but she's not some kind of neighborhood panacea. It's not like she moves a business into an area and suddenly there's an explosion of new construction and business when before there was none. If she moves into an area, it's because the momentum there has already started and she's taking advantage of it, not the other way around. DFII didn't happen until after the casino/West Broad/Georgesville activity and the start of increased Broad Street bus service. The Tap Room is not even open yet, and that's in Franklinton, years after the city got the ball rolling and other projects were already being announced. And anything in the Short North/Downtown was concurrent with existing activity, not preceding it, even Betty's. I know you're president of her fan club, but stop acting like she's single-handedly rebuilding urban Columbus, because it's seriously overstating the case while simultaneously disrespecting the true pioneers of revitalization.
Oh please, the casino has nothing to do with an urban business on Broad St a whopping 2 miles away near Hague. Even if it were the main reason she moved there she was still 1st to follow after them and open a new worthy destination on all of W Broad, not a single other Columbus entrepreneur can claim the same. With The Franklinton Tap it's all but due to improvements elsewhere in the neighborhood sure, but again who else was even proposing a new destination on that stretch of W Broad? Just her and this again proves my point: she shouldn't be the 1st or 2nd to open a destination in a would-be walkable strip that is deserted: I remember when Dirty Frank's was the only new spot on 4th Downtown and I think she moved in not long before the original Little Palace closed shop, but now every spot is accounted for and more around the corner are following suit after she moved in: same for when there was virtually nothing north of 4th St in the SN. Don't blame me for the vast majority of Columbus entrepreneurs' lack of willingness to open any business outside of well-established corridors before she does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Parsons is seeing a lot of activity now, so why you keep mentioning it as some ignored corridor is a mystery.
Because most of it is by far ignored: there's maybe 10% that's seeing its potential when you include the tiny OTE stretch (which is about to become microsscopic after ODOT tears more of it down), the intersection at Livingston, and Tatoheads way down on Gates and I'm probably being generous with that figure. If it were seeing "a lot of activity" there would be more than only a handful of new destinations and it would be making it's way beyond outside of these few little glimmers of hope. South of Livingston Parsons lost Hal & Al's and the same space reopened as Tatoheads: the number of new quality spots down that far still has only been boosted by Whitt's End opening up and it has been several years since Hal & Al's first opened way back in 2009. Despite having proven that you can draw people and succeed it seems like since Liz Lessner didn't give her stamp of approval via a restaurant-bar there has not been a resurgence there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Cleveland Avenue through Linden is terrible, but that's largely because Linden is terrible. There are pockets here and there that have potential, but you have to fix a whole lot of other problems unrelated to Cleveland's building stock to be able to attract investment. This is no simple task, and apparently no city on the planet has been able to figure out how to not have at least one terrible neighborhood. Certainly MSP has it's own share, much to your own denial and chagrin.
Fact: Minneapolis has nothing on Columbus' deserted commercial corridors when compared mile-to-mile. There's no denial involved: there are just nowhere near as many that exist. Even iffy stretches like Lake St for five mere blocks from Pillsbury to Stevens is full of businesses vs empty storefronts.

W Broadway is as close as the city comes to Columbus' worst for only 1.3 miles from 4th to Penn and even there a high-end suburban restaurant that focuses on a tasting menu opened a pop-up restaurant temporarily in a strip mall location there and people were flocking there from around the MSP region to try it and the location did not scare people away. Show me the same occurring on even one of Columbus' worst corridors: it's not.

The city's major commercial corridors of Hennepin, Nicollet, Central, Lyndale, Washington, and Lake are all full of destinations along their miles-long stretches and even Franklin which lacks commercial space along its middle stretch still offers some great stops and has plenty more on its portion throughout the Seward neighborhood.

If you're going to make the claim that we have our own share of terrible streets, go ahead and back it up with evidence otherwise don't make outlandish claims with no backing whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
In the end, the number of urban neighborhoods in Columbus that are being ignored in terms of revitalization is steadily shrinking. However, you will always complain that the opposite is true and believe that complex problems can be immediately fixed with minimal effort. That's just your nature, and in some ways, a lot like Cleveland Avenue... a complex problem that no amount of talk is ever going to fix.
"Steadily" is an exaggeration. What's new in the past five years on Sullivant, W Broad, S High, Cleveland, E Main in OTE, Lockbourne, St Clair, E Long, Mt Vernon, E Livingston, Whittier east of Parsons, E 5th St, Parsons south of OTE? Very little to nothing within a half decade's time is not steady progress: the improvements made annually should yield a notable total that, but that's not the case.

Over here on Central between 18th and 26th there were numerous empty blighted storefronts when I moved here 3 1/2 years and in that time frame several businesses opened in these vacant structures: a bike shop, a co-op brewery, a bakery, a Thai restaurant, two Mexican restaurants (one expanded into the neighboring storefront), a bar-restaurant that does brunch, a third wave coffee shop (from where I'm currently adding up these changes I've witnessed first hand),a gift shop, a daycare in an old Burger King building, an Ecuadorian bakery is in the works, and a Chinese restaurant and an East African restaurant both reopened on the same intersection in the same spots somehow while the Co-op grocery store is due to expand into a neighboring spot.

That is a pace which qualifies as steady progress and whose total bests any up-and-coming strip in Columbus and once again like every other strip here which has rebounded while Columbus' have largely fallen further is due to the city planting the seed for this to happen by investing in commercial building improvements years ago.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,767,534 times
Reputation: 5459
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightiesfan View Post
I think it's great that you love Columbus and The Short North, I like it too. The fact that you can't take any criticism of the place is a bit strange and makes one wonder if you're on some sort of payroll. I'll accept that I'm "just kind of being a snob" if you accept that you're just kind of basic.
It's not about criticism, but your criticism doesn't make any sense in relation to reality. I would understand if the SN was basically filled with Applebees and other chains, but it's not. The vast majority of the businesses are locally owned, operated and born, and most of them are one-off concepts. If you don't like those businesses, fine, and admittedly it's not exactly gritty anymore, but I'm not sure why exactly that's a bad thing. I would take the current SN over what was there in 1985 or 1995 any day. I take "basic" as a compliment, because basic to me implies without complication, without unnecessary BS. I don't sit around worrying about what the latest fashion craze is or what new hipster business serves mineral water to dogs in sweaters. Yeah, the SN has probably moved beyond that phase, and I say, thank god for that.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,767,534 times
Reputation: 5459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplsite View Post
Oh please, the casino has nothing to do with an urban business on Broad St a whopping 2 miles away near Hague. Even if it were the main reason she moved there she was still 1st to follow after them and open a new worthy destination on all of W Broad, not a single other Columbus entrepreneur can claim the same. With The Franklinton Tap it's all but due to improvements elsewhere in the neighborhood sure, but again who else was even proposing a new destination on that stretch of W Broad? Just her and this again proves my point: she shouldn't be the 1st or 2nd to open a destination in a would-be walkable strip that is deserted: I remember when Dirty Frank's was the only new spot on 4th Downtown and I think she moved in not long before the original Little Palace closed shop, but now every spot is accounted for and more around the corner are following suit after she moved in: same for when there was virtually nothing north of 4th St in the SN. Don't blame me for the vast majority of Columbus entrepreneurs' lack of willingness to open any business outside of well-established corridors before she does.



Because most of it is by far ignored: there's maybe 10% that's seeing its potential when you include the tiny OTE stretch (which is about to become microsscopic after ODOT tears more of it down), the intersection at Livingston, and Tatoheads way down on Gates and I'm probably being generous with that figure. If it were seeing "a lot of activity" there would be more than only a handful of new destinations and it would be making it's way beyond outside of these few little glimmers of hope. South of Livingston Parsons lost Hal & Al's and the same space reopened as Tatoheads: the number of new quality spots down that far still has only been boosted by Whitt's End opening up and it has been several years since Hal & Al's first opened way back in 2009. Despite having proven that you can draw people and succeed it seems like since Liz Lessner didn't give her stamp of approval via a restaurant-bar there has not been a resurgence there.



Fact: Minneapolis has nothing on Columbus' deserted commercial corridors when compared mile-to-mile. There's no denial involved: there are just nowhere near as many that exist. Even iffy stretches like Lake St for five mere blocks from Pillsbury to Stevens is full of businesses vs empty storefronts.

W Broadway is as close as the city comes to Columbus' worst for only 1.3 miles from 4th to Penn and even there a high-end suburban restaurant that focuses on a tasting menu opened a pop-up restaurant temporarily in a strip mall location there and people were flocking there from around the MSP region to try it and the location did not scare people away. Show me the same occurring on even one of Columbus' worst corridors: it's not.

The city's major commercial corridors of Hennepin, Nicollet, Central, Lyndale, Washington, and Lake are all full of destinations along their miles-long stretches and even Franklin which lacks commercial space along its middle stretch still offers some great stops and has plenty more on its portion throughout the Seward neighborhood.

If you're going to make the claim that we have our own share of terrible streets, go ahead and back it up with evidence otherwise don't make outlandish claims with no backing whatsoever.

"Steadily" is an exaggeration. What's new in the past five years on Sullivant, W Broad, S High, Cleveland, E Main in OTE, Lockbourne, St Clair, E Long, Mt Vernon, E Livingston, Whittier east of Parsons, E 5th St, Parsons south of OTE? Very little to nothing within a half decade's time is not steady progress: the improvements made annually should yield a notable total that, but that's not the case.

Over here on Central between 18th and 26th there were numerous empty blighted storefronts when I moved here 3 1/2 years and in that time frame several businesses opened in these vacant structures: a bike shop, a co-op brewery, a bakery, a Thai restaurant, two Mexican restaurants (one expanded into the neighboring storefront), a bar-restaurant that does brunch, a third wave coffee shop (from where I'm currently adding up these changes I've witnessed first hand),a gift shop, a daycare in an old Burger King building, an Ecuadorian bakery is in the works, and a Chinese restaurant and an East African restaurant both reopened on the same intersection in the same spots somehow while the Co-op grocery store is due to expand into a neighboring spot.

That is a pace which qualifies as steady progress and whose total bests any up-and-coming strip in Columbus and once again like every other strip here which has rebounded while Columbus' have largely fallen further is due to the city planting the seed for this to happen by investing in commercial building improvements years ago.

It's truly amazing that Columbus is like *literally* every city in the known universe and has bad areas. The idea that Minneapolis has not a single one is a lie at best and completely delusional at worst. You really should work for the MSP chamber of commerce. They could probably use some good salesman who are able to fudge the truth as much as you do.
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Old 04-22-2015, 06:59 PM
 
Location: MPLS
1,064 posts, read 1,032,536 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
It's truly amazing that Columbus is like *literally* every city in the known universe and has bad areas. The idea that Minneapolis has not a single one is a lie at best and completely delusional at worst. You really should work for the MSP chamber of commerce. They could probably use some good salesman who are able to fudge the truth as much as you do.
I love how you included my quote listing off bad and iffy areas of Minneapolis and then go on to setup a strawman that, "The idea that Minneapolis has not a single one is a lie at best and completely delusional at worst. ".

And you or anyone else is free to peruse the city's major commercial streets that I listed or didn't and google maps will list off all the popular destinations along their widths throughout the city: these are telltale signs in healthy areas. In that vein, most of Columbus major urban corridors are very lacking in these and their absence makes for quite the contrast. If there's any doubt streetview can vouch for me.
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:05 PM
 
Location: MPLS
1,064 posts, read 1,032,536 times
Reputation: 659
Back on topic, the SN is a bit more "Park St" than it used to be, but as far as I've seen aside from Bar 23 and Bernard's Tavern drawing bros with their blaringly loud and just as awful top 40 it's been catering more to well-to-do yuppies looking for a cocktail to go with their lobster mac and cheese than some Gaswerks and Brothers doppelgangers popping up. The only place that's Park St in spirit which made further inroads would be the Pint House which drew controversy over their bro-y clientele yelling homophobic slurs at the patrons next door at the gay bar. That resulted in the owner vowing to end any further instances, but I have no clue if it's ongoing or if that behavior was curbed by the bar's owner.
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Old 04-23-2015, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,767,534 times
Reputation: 5459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplsite View Post
I love how you included my quote listing off bad and iffy areas of Minneapolis and then go on to setup a strawman that, "The idea that Minneapolis has not a single one is a lie at best and completely delusional at worst. ".

And you or anyone else is free to peruse the city's major commercial streets that I listed or didn't and google maps will list off all the popular destinations along their widths throughout the city: these are telltale signs in healthy areas. In that vein, most of Columbus major urban corridors are very lacking in these and their absence makes for quite the contrast. If there's any doubt streetview can vouch for me.
Because, like always, you attempted to suggest they're not really bad in comparison. What a shocker.

Your hero Liz Lessner is busy closing restaurants these days.
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