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Old 12-09-2015, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplsite View Post
And here we get a taste of what Mayor Ginther thinks about the safety of people not in cars: very little.

"Olentangy River Road" and "pedestrian friendly" do not belong in the same sentence. What is pedestrian-friendly about this road? The wide corner radii which allows cars to take turns at high speeds without coming to a complete stop in the path of pedestrians? 50 MPH traffic zipping by and running red lights? Five lanes worth of road for pedestrians to cross? Or the lack of sidewalks along this stretch in West Campus?
https://goo.gl/maps/9jpyGKN87kD2
Where are the bike lanes?
https://goo.gl/maps/wKF4XNLHQdy
OMG, where are the bike lanes??
https://goo.gl/maps/g8NnkSniU1p
Where are the f*cking bike lanes? Where is the pedestrian infrastructure?
https://goo.gl/maps/MNvg6mJqQh42
WTF, no bike lanes? Where is the transit? Where is the walkability??
https://goo.gl/maps/ikf419B4r9r
I don't understand how every single street in MSP doesn't have bike lanes, transit and walkability!
https://goo.gl/maps/rGXmXVdYCsA2
Phew, here is one... but wait, it isn't dedicated, and it only exists on one street. Why is it done so half-*ssed? I thought Minneapolis had standards?!
https://goo.gl/maps/MiP6Y5RD5CE2
*cries*
https://goo.gl/maps/eZSvE44N5Ly
No bike lanes, no dedicated transit, no walkability... and a suburban gas station? But... but people don't drive in Minneapolis!
https://goo.gl/maps/XzM3zkU8kdQ2
Surely this bridge is for the extensive light rail system? Or perhaps one of those High-Line style parks? No, wait, it's just a freight line. How could this happen in America's most progressive city?
https://goo.gl/maps/mxRHEgFDdz22
Managed to find a transit line... but it is surrounded by parking lots and suburban style development. Where is the TOD? Oh wait, this is St. Paul. Totally different.
https://goo.gl/maps/qaB4ZMCZavS2
Hmm, I thought residential neighborhoods would be reserved for bikers and walkers only, not parked cars. And since I see no one walking, it's probably safe to assume no one does. Shame!






This was fun, and it was totally random selection from Google Maps. I could've done this all day.
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:59 PM
 
Location: MPLS
1,064 posts, read 1,030,835 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
https://goo.gl/maps/9jpyGKN87kD2
Where are the bike lanes?
https://goo.gl/maps/wKF4XNLHQdy
OMG, where are the bike lanes??
https://goo.gl/maps/g8NnkSniU1p
Where are the f*cking bike lanes? Where is the pedestrian infrastructure?
https://goo.gl/maps/MNvg6mJqQh42
WTF, no bike lanes? Where is the transit? Where is the walkability??
https://goo.gl/maps/ikf419B4r9r
I don't understand how every single street in MSP doesn't have bike lanes, transit and walkability!
https://goo.gl/maps/rGXmXVdYCsA2
Phew, here is one... but wait, it isn't dedicated, and it only exists on one street. Why is it done so half-*ssed? I thought Minneapolis had standards?!
https://goo.gl/maps/MiP6Y5RD5CE2
*cries*
https://goo.gl/maps/eZSvE44N5Ly
No bike lanes, no dedicated transit, no walkability... and a suburban gas station? But... but people don't drive in Minneapolis!
https://goo.gl/maps/XzM3zkU8kdQ2
Surely this bridge is for the extensive light rail system? Or perhaps one of those High-Line style parks? No, wait, it's just a freight line. How could this happen in America's most progressive city?
https://goo.gl/maps/mxRHEgFDdz22
Managed to find a transit line... but it is surrounded by parking lots and suburban style development. Where is the TOD? Oh wait, this is St. Paul. Totally different.
https://goo.gl/maps/qaB4ZMCZavS2
Hmm, I thought residential neighborhoods would be reserved for bikers and walkers only, not parked cars. And since I see no one walking, it's probably safe to assume no one does. Shame!






This was fun, and it was totally random selection from Google Maps. I could've done this all day.
In order:

Franklin Ave is due bike lanes from the LRT to Hennepin: there are already bike lanes from the Blue Line station to the river and as a county road we have to fight tooth and nail, but weren't getting it done.

Glad you brought up 3rd Downtown as it's going to get a protected bikeway next summer connecting Downtown to neighborhoods on either side.

Hennepin has a shared bike/bus/right-turn only lane throughout all of Downtown. And dedicated protected bike lanes a block over on 1st and bike-only Nicollet another block on the other side.

Umm, that's a highway? But there is a bike lane that goes right under it; you just can't see it from there.

Look right or left and there's a bike path on both sides. Also, there's a refuge median for pedestrians crossing this county road. Again, an obstacle for the city, but we got accommations for pedestrians and cyclists.

I'm so glad you brought up the Plymouth Ave bike lanes (dedicated by their very definition) since they were converted to protected bike lanes earlier this year and even newly extended out east over the Plymouth Ave bridge (w/ protected bike lanes too) over to the bike lanes on Marshall and the 5th St bike boulevard. I know, because I rode the entire length at the grand opening. And who is that handsome fellow standing next to Councilman Jacob Frey speaking at said grand opening in the brown jacket and black helmet? Yours truly! Glad you did this otherwise I would've missed it!

Golden Valley is another county road, but luckily the city installed bike lanes just north on 26th and the aforementioned Plymouth to the south.

Broadway and University in NE are awful and yet again county roads: thankfully Minneapolis installed a bike boulevard literally two blocks away on a city street and no car traffic is allowed to/from Broadway there southbound due to concrete bollards. Also has a dedicated bike signal and prioritized for cyclists since if changes in seven seconds when the button is pressed.Broadway further east is getting a dedicated bike-pedestrian path, BTW.


Umm, you can clearly see the Minneapolis Diagonal Trail which is separated from traffic and goes under that freight train bridge: I use it to reach the restaurants and breweries just a block or so further north or to commute. The path goes all the way to Roseville where that suburb continues the path further. Progressive? Check.

I love how you picked a suburbanized stretch of St Paul to poo-poo the TOD there from the LRT; that's the exact lot that is soon to be home to their new soccer stadium. How's that for TOD? Definitely beats the Crew Stadium. You just keep digging your hole deeper and deeper.

And 38th Ave S is perfectly fine for walking and biking: you have no case here at all.

So if your argument is that the county is hampering city efforts you're onto something, but where the county is an obstacle we've found alternative routes on city steets. Columbus? Nope. Much of that city doesn't even have sidewalks let alone quality bikeways on streets 100% under its control. And no light rail, and no bike-pedestrian only bridges over the rivers (we have two and they're lovely). Basically, all you did was show how backwards Columbus is because where we're addressing problems Columbus just looks the other way and does nothing. For someone who mostly walks and bikes it's a no brainer that Minneapolis is the place to be if you want a Midwestern city that takes such people seriously.

Maybe in 2016 Columbus will have even just a sidewalk on W 3rd. Til then they're forcing pedestrians into the street: so much more progressive than we are. So strange that you love a city that hates being a city, we should get to the root of that to better understand your true motives here.

I can't wait for the 2nd installation, please tell me I won't have to wait another week; this was just too perfect.

Last edited by Mplsite; 12-14-2015 at 08:09 PM..
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplsite View Post
In order:

Franklin Ave is due bike lanes from the LRT to Hennepin: there are already bike lanes from the Blue Line station to the river and as a county road we have to fight tooth and nail, but weren't getting it done.

Glad you brought up 3rd Downtown as it's going to get a protected bikeway next summer connecting Downtown to neighborhoods on either side.

Hennepin has a shared bike/bus/right-turn only lane throughout all of Downtown. And dedicated protected bike lanes a block over on 1st and bike-only Nicollet another block on the other side.

Umm, that's a highway? But there is a bike lane that goes right under it; you just can't see it from there.

Look right or left and there's a bike path on both sides. Also, there's a refuge median for pedestrians crossing this county road. Again, an obstacle for the city, but we got accommations for pedestrians and cyclists.

I'm so glad you brought up the Plymouth Ave bike lanes (dedicated by their very definition) since they were converted to protected bike lanes earlier this year and even newly extended out east over the Plymouth Ave bridge (w/ protected bike lanes too) over to the bike lanes on Marshall and the 5th St bike boulevard. I know, because I rode the entire length at the grand opening. And who is that handsome fellow standing next to Councilman Jacob Frey speaking at said grand opening in the brown jacket and black helmet? Yours truly! Glad you did this otherwise I would've missed it!

Golden Valley is another county road, but luckily the city installed bike lanes just north on 26th and the aforementioned Plymouth to the south.

Broadway and University in NE are awful and yet again county roads: thankfully Minneapolis installed a bike boulevard literally two blocks away on a city street and no car traffic is allowed to/from Broadway there southbound due to concrete bollards. Also has a dedicated bike signal and prioritized for cyclists since if changes in seven seconds when the button is pressed.Broadway further east is getting a dedicated bike-pedestrian path, BTW.


Umm, you can clearly see the Minneapolis Diagonal Trail which is separated from traffic and goes under that freight train bridge: I use it to reach the restaurants and breweries just a block or so further north or to commute. The path goes all the way to Roseville where that suburb continues the path further. Progressive? Check.

I love how you picked a suburbanized stretch of St Paul to poo-poo the TOD there from the LRT; that's the exact lot that is soon to be home to their new soccer stadium. How's that for TOD? Definitely beats the Crew Stadium. You just keep digging your hole deeper and deeper.

And 38th Ave S is perfectly fine for walking and biking: you have no case here at all.

So if your argument is that the county is hampering city efforts you're onto something, but where the county is an obstacle we've found alternative routes on city steets. Columbus? Nope. Much of that city doesn't even have sidewalks let alone quality bikeways on streets 100% under its control. And no light rail, and no bike-pedestrian only bridges over the rivers (we have two and they're lovely). Basically, all you did was show how backwards Columbus is because where we're addressing problems Columbus just looks the other way and does nothing. For someone who mostly walks and bikes it's a no brainer that Minneapolis is the place to be if you want a Midwestern city that takes such people seriously.

Maybe in 2016 Columbus will have even just a sidewalk on W 3rd. Til then they're forcing pedestrians into the street: so much more progressive than we are. So strange that you love a city that hates being a city, we should get to the root of that to better understand your true motives here.

I can't wait for the 2nd installation, please tell me I won't have to wait another week; this was just too perfect.
I absolutely love the excuses. "They're coming, really!" "They're county roads!" See, here I thought Minneapolis would've done all this like 20 years ago. You've been telling me for years that it's so progressive, but a completely random look proved completely the opposite.
It's so painfully ironic that you bring up 3rd Avenue sidewalks due next year, but just made a huge list of projects that have yet to be done in Minneapolis. I've said forever now that no city can tackle every single issue all at once, and you always vehemently disagreed because it suited your anti-Columbus agenda. Now here you are proving me correct. Even the great and hipster heaven that is Minneapolis can't actually do it all at the same time.

Love the green skinny jeans, but you're missing your ironic beard, so you only get half credit.
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:48 PM
 
Location: MPLS
1,064 posts, read 1,030,835 times
Reputation: 659
There's a huge difference between Columbus' approach of 'it'll get done at some point in the future...maybe' vs Minneapolis' 'here's our goal and here's what we're doing to get there and we're starting now' approach.

The protected bike lanes are a perfect example. Here's our map of protected bike lanes for 2020. Where is Columbus'? The city page on protected bike lanes only mentions Summit-4th, no such plan exists. That could be it for all we know. We already got the first five miles this year which adds to an existing network of bikeways which is much larger. The fact of the matter is that NYC's goal of five miles of protected bike lanes is exactly the same as Minneapolis'. Here's a qoute about that from the Citylab article,

Quote:
“This year, the city built five miles of protected lanes—that’s on par with Minneapolis. There need to be 30 to 40 miles per year.”
So yes, we a city of 400,000 are competing with NYC because we're walking the walk, we're done talking. New York f$#%&n' City. Where is Columbus with double the population and its oh so rosy economy? Nowhere to be seen, just like many "should be" sidewalks and bike lanes.

Comparing Columbus to any number of truly progressive cities while claiming that Columbus is doing what it can and is on pace with these cities is a lost argument. Cities can't tackle everything at once, but only some cities are tackling their problems. Columbus is not one of them; it's too busy just talking about it. When Minneapolis talks about what it's doing next year it has a proven track record to back that up. Columbus on the other hand, delays, delays and delays, as proven with the Summit-4th protected bikeways which were drafted at the beginning of 2014 and only recently installed.
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplsite View Post
There's a huge difference between Columbus' approach of 'it'll get done at some point in the future...maybe' vs Minneapolis' 'here's our goal and here's what we're doing to get there and we're starting now' approach.

The protected bike lanes are a perfect example. Here's our map of protected bike lanes for 2020. Where is Columbus'? The city page on protected bike lanes only mentions Summit-4th, no such plan exists. That could be it for all we know. We already got the first five miles this year which adds to an existing network of bikeways which is much larger. The fact of the matter is that NYC's goal of five miles of protected bike lanes is exactly the same as Minneapolis'. Here's a qoute about that from the Citylab article,



So yes, we a city of 400,000 are competing with NYC because we're walking the walk, we're done talking. New York f$#%&n' City. Where is Columbus with double the population and its oh so rosy economy? Nowhere to be seen, just like many "should be" sidewalks and bike lanes.

Comparing Columbus to any number of truly progressive cities while claiming that Columbus is doing what it can and is on pace with these cities is a lost argument. Cities can't tackle everything at once, but only some cities are tackling their problems. Columbus is not one of them; it's too busy just talking about it. When Minneapolis talks about what it's doing next year it has a proven track record to back that up. Columbus on the other hand, delays, delays and delays, as proven with the Summit-4th protected bikeways which were drafted at the beginning of 2014 and only recently installed.

Again, you are moving the goalposts from everything you have argued previously. You have repeatedly stated that Columbus should be able to build everything at once, without any significant time needed. But Minneapolis gets a pass for all the time it needs. This is probably the worst exposure of your blatant bias to date. Columbus will never be able to do well in your eyes, but Minneapolis can never do wrong, even when a casual examination of the actual conditions on the ground prove that Minneapolis still has so much work to do. If those photos were of Columbus, you'd be freaking out all over it and saying that Columbus wasn't doing enough, which is no different than how you always act. I feel like I need a doll and you need to point to where Columbus hurt you. I'll never understand where such hatred for a city comes from. I just can't imagine hating a place that much for such things as not having enough bike lanes. I mean, come on. It is weird.
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
BTW, here is Columbus' plan: http://atfiles.org/files/pdf/ColumbusBikePlanMap.pdf
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:09 PM
 
Location: MPLS
1,064 posts, read 1,030,835 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Again, you are moving the goalposts from everything you have argued previously. You have repeatedly stated that Columbus should be able to build everything at once, without any significant time needed. But Minneapolis gets a pass for all the time it needs. This is probably the worst exposure of your blatant bias to date. Columbus will never be able to do well in your eyes, but Minneapolis can never do wrong, even when a casual examination of the actual conditions on the ground prove that Minneapolis still has so much work to do. If those photos were of Columbus, you'd be freaking out all over it and saying that Columbus wasn't doing enough, which is no different than how you always act. I feel like I need a doll and you need to point to where Columbus hurt you. I'll never understand where such hatred for a city comes from. I just can't imagine hating a place that much for such things as not having enough bike lanes. I mean, come on. It is weird.
Nowhere did I state that Columbus should or could build everything at once: nowhere. Where's the quote? Show me the quote! Again, you'll be unable to procure something that doesn't exist.

What I did say and have been saying is that Columbus is behind its peers and shows no sign of ever catching up, let alone be a leader. It is and will be a mostly horrible place for people not in cars in the coming decades. Even more telling is when there are suburbs making more progress than your city for people on foot or bike. In the same amount of time, these places have completed building sidewalks while Columbus has been sitting there twiddling its thumbs while people are forced to walk in the street or brave 50MPH cars and trucks on a bike.

It's a city among American cities which have chosen to be hostile to non-motorists and in many cases leave them in unsafe conditions with no alternatives. No one who loves cities could champion such a place, since that's precisely the opposite of what a great city does.

I didn't and don't give Minneapolis a pass on every street. However the difference as I noted earlier is that where some are lacking (an) alternative(s) is/are available and I listed those. They're available today. Such alternatives in Columbus are sitting in neighbhood plans drafted 15 years ago and gathering dust.
If I'm wrong, then show us all the progressive projects which have already been completed.

The fact of the matter is that there is no local equivalent of the W 3rd Ave pedestrian situation west of Olentangy. We had plenty of time to put off building sidewalks under at least one bridge; why didn't we? And why did Columbus choose the one that sits right across from a major biking/walking trail access point? I mean, come on. It is weird. Well, is it any better for those on bike? Not really. There's no dedicated bikeway on or off W 3rd. So how about neighboring east-west streets? Surely Columbus, being the great progressive city you think it is, has provided an alternative cyclists can use today. 5th is the closest at just 2 blocks north, but nope, nothing there. King is just a bit further north and I spot a bike lane, but, oh: it doesn't start until west of Olentangy under that bridge meaning you're supposed to ride in 40MPH traffic, which is what someone wanting to ride in a bike lane won't do. Well maybe if we go south of 3rd it is a bit of a trek, but Goodale? Umm, nope, nothing there either. How is that when it's a city with twice the residents and growing and doing well economically that there's not a single option available?

That's because Columbus chooses not to provide these and that major gap on King Ave highlights this truth so very clearly. All the city had to do was extend the bike lanes both ways from Aschinger to the trail just east of the river roughly three measly blocks. But Columbus didn't want to give up a single lane so that cyclists could use the bike lanes to cross the river and access a highly utilized trail. Motorists already have 3rd and 5th and every other street to cross the river, but no, just throw some worthless sharrows on there and call it a day while knowing that doing so caps the number of cyclists who will use those bike lanes.

What's not to hate about that? What's even weirder is that you love it. Masochist much? That would at least explain this obsession with a city that takes pleasure in putting people on foot or bike in danger by concocting these dangerous creations.
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplsite View Post
Nowhere did I state that Columbus should or could build everything at once: nowhere. Where's the quote? Show me the quote! Again, you'll be unable to procure something that doesn't exist.

What I did say and have been saying is that Columbus is behind its peers and shows no sign of ever catching up, let alone be a leader. It is and will be a mostly horrible place for people not in cars in the coming decades. Even more telling is when there are suburbs making more progress than your city for people on foot or bike. In the same amount of time, these places have completed building sidewalks while Columbus has been sitting there twiddling its thumbs while people are forced to walk in the street or brave 50MPH cars and trucks on a bike.

It's a city among American cities which have chosen to be hostile to non-motorists and in many cases leave them in unsafe conditions with no alternatives. No one who loves cities could champion such a place, since that's precisely the opposite of what a great city does.

I didn't and don't give Minneapolis a pass on every street. However the difference as I noted earlier is that where some are lacking (an) alternative(s) is/are available and I listed those. They're available today. Such alternatives in Columbus are sitting in neighbhood plans drafted 15 years ago and gathering dust.
If I'm wrong, then show us all the progressive projects which have already been completed.

The fact of the matter is that there is no local equivalent of the W 3rd Ave pedestrian situation west of Olentangy. We had plenty of time to put off building sidewalks under at least one bridge; why didn't we? And why did Columbus choose the one that sits right across from a major biking/walking trail access point? I mean, come on. It is weird. Well, is it any better for those on bike? Not really. There's no dedicated bikeway on or off W 3rd. So how about neighboring east-west streets? Surely Columbus, being the great progressive city you think it is, has provided an alternative cyclists can use today. 5th is the closest at just 2 blocks north, but nope, nothing there. King is just a bit further north and I spot a bike lane, but, oh: it doesn't start until west of Olentangy under that bridge meaning you're supposed to ride in 40MPH traffic, which is what someone wanting to ride in a bike lane won't do. Well maybe if we go south of 3rd it is a bit of a trek, but Goodale? Umm, nope, nothing there either. How is that when it's a city with twice the residents and growing and doing well economically that there's not a single option available?

That's because Columbus chooses not to provide these and that major gap on King Ave highlights this truth so very clearly. All the city had to do was extend the bike lanes both ways from Aschinger to the trail just east of the river roughly three measly blocks. But Columbus didn't want to give up a single lane so that cyclists could use the bike lanes to cross the river and access a highly utilized trail. Motorists already have 3rd and 5th and every other street to cross the river, but no, just throw some worthless sharrows on there and call it a day while knowing that doing so caps the number of cyclists who will use those bike lanes.

What's not to hate about that? What's even weirder is that you love it. Masochist much? That would at least explain this obsession with a city that takes pleasure in putting people on foot or bike in danger by concocting these dangerous creations.

Yeah, I didn't actually expect you to admit it. I did expect a long-winded answer full of excuses and the usual "Columbus is terrible at everything!" stuff. Surprise!


And you just stated Columbus has no goals, and then I provided a map for what those goals are. I expect your mea culpa any time. Or rather, I expect another long-winded essay on how the map doesn't really mean anything.
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Old 12-17-2015, 05:34 PM
 
Location: MPLS
1,064 posts, read 1,030,835 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Yeah, I didn't actually expect you to admit it. I did expect a long-winded answer full of excuses and the usual "Columbus is terrible at everything!" stuff. Surprise!


And you just stated Columbus has no goals, and then I provided a map for what those goals are. I expect your mea culpa any time. Or rather, I expect another long-winded essay on how the map doesn't really mean anything.
Admit what? That smaller cities than Columbus have built out sidewalks on every street and have done much more to accommodate non-motorists? I admit that you have no quote of me claiming that Columbus can/should build out all of this infrastructure at once.

I missed that post with the map, but that map doesn't answer my assertion that there's no goal for protected bike lanes and that map only lists "bike lanes" which does not specify protected vs door zone bike lanes like they striped on Ohio-Champion. Seeing as how you have every bit of data pertaining to Columbus, that means I was right; no such goal exists let alone a map of it.

Also, it's worth mentioning that setting a goal to do the least amount of work possible pales in comparison to the goals of other cities. All of those red lines on that map are "shared" roadways with signs and sharrows; we know that sharrows and signage are virtually the same as no bike infrastructure. What you're left with is a largely unusable disconnected jumble of isolated bike lanes unless getting from point A to B can be done on any given stretch.

And Sullivant is colored blue for bike lanes, but where are they? Oh, they were downgraded to sharrows. So much for having a goal when the goalposts are just moved closer and closer. And that map has no date for when the whole thing is to be "complete", which is funny seeing how even if built out overnight it would be very incomplete. Laughably so.
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Old 12-17-2015, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mplsite View Post
Admit what? That smaller cities than Columbus have built out sidewalks on every street and have done much more to accommodate non-motorists? I admit that you have no quote of me claiming that Columbus can/should build out all of this infrastructure at once.

I missed that post with the map, but that map doesn't answer my assertion that there's no goal for protected bike lanes and that map only lists "bike lanes" which does not specify protected vs door zone bike lanes like they striped on Ohio-Champion. Seeing as how you have every bit of data pertaining to Columbus, that means I was right; no such goal exists let alone a map of it.

Also, it's worth mentioning that setting a goal to do the least amount of work possible pales in comparison to the goals of other cities. All of those red lines on that map are "shared" roadways with signs and sharrows; we know that sharrows and signage are virtually the same as no bike infrastructure. What you're left with is a largely unusable disconnected jumble of isolated bike lanes unless getting from point A to B can be done on any given stretch.

And Sullivant is colored blue for bike lanes, but where are they? Oh, they were downgraded to sharrows. So much for having a goal when the goalposts are just moved closer and closer. And that map has no date for when the whole thing is to be "complete", which is funny seeing how even if built out overnight it would be very incomplete. Laughably so.
"I expect another long-winded essay on how the map doesn't mean anything."

You could've at least tried to surprise me. It's like you don't care about my needs anymore.
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