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Old 06-11-2015, 05:50 AM
 
7,234 posts, read 4,149,289 times
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Here's a description of Cleveland's PlayhouseSquare, which many experts believe was vital to the current downtown residential expansion.

Cleveland: PlayhouseSquare - TripAdvisor

My point is that persons don't live in downtown areas only because of job proximity. Amenities play a large role in the downtown residential decision. Enclosed retail areas, such as malls and arcades, likely are essential to providing adequate retail services.
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,963 posts, read 6,891,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
The typical Columbus' downtown is boring, no one lives there, dead after 5pm kind of stuff. Come to Cleveland!

It gets old, especially when it has changed so much in the last 10 years.
ugh nobody even said that. If it makes you feel better, Cleveland's downtown population is almost twice Columbus's, but BOTH experience a significant drop in activity after 5 pm. Anyone who says downtown COlumbus and downtown Cleveland are truly vibrant at 8 pm, without a game or something of that nature, is just being dishonest. Both are trending in the right direction though, it's just that at this point, they don't match the activity of bigger cities. It is not an insult to say this.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:53 AM
 
7,234 posts, read 4,149,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
ugh nobody even said that. If it makes you feel better, Cleveland's downtown population is almost twice Columbus's, but BOTH experience a significant drop in activity after 5 pm. Anyone who says downtown COlumbus and downtown Cleveland are truly vibrant at 8 pm, without a game or something of that nature, is just being dishonest. Both are trending in the right direction though, it's just that at this point, they don't match the activity of bigger cities. It is not an insult to say this.
You don't exactly know what you're talking about in regards to Cleveland, in my experience. Check out the number of restaurants downtown as well as entertainment venues and consider how those places could stay in business if it was such a dead city.

First of all, between the Cavs, Indians, and Browns, game days are about a third of the year, especially during play-off years. Then you have the Lake Erie Monsters and arena football home games, and other events at the Q, such as concerts. Venues such as the House of Blues and Hilarities create their own traffic.

Additionally, Cleveland with the new convention center, has much more convention business than in the past.

Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays often are pretty hopping, even without major pro games, especially in warmer months. Many downtown restaurants in Cleveland don't open until 5 p.m. on Sundays.

Finally, PlayhouseSquare has a fairly robust schedule, except for July and August vacation months.

With over 12,000 persons now living downtown, that also contributes to activity.

Admittedly, there are some days, especially work nights in the winter, from Sunday to Wednesday, when things are slow, absent a Cavs game downtown.

I've noticed that Market District often is busy when downtown is relatively slow. The breweries and restaurants there are big draws, likely because of free/cheap parking.

I was in downtown Cleveland recently on a nice Friday at lunch hour, and I was surprised at how dead East 4th St. seemed. Perhaps the lunch traffic was drawn to the Warehouse District or one of the weekly food truck/concert events downtown in the summer months.

Last edited by WRnative; 06-11-2015 at 08:07 AM..
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
424 posts, read 1,084,797 times
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What population loss is costing Cleveland -- and why it matters: Brent Larkin | cleveland.com

Columbus is gaining people, Cleveland not so much.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,963 posts, read 6,891,512 times
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Originally Posted by mattbward View Post
There is so much wrong with that article it's entertaining (in terms of solutions to Cleveland's situation). Cleveland spends tons of money on things that nobody wants or are completely inconsequential and they have high taxes. Hmm maybe that is a reason why people moved out? Making government regional will just force those people further out. Also, Columbus should enjoy this boom now, because I'm not overly optimistic about its future, what with being really dependent on the government for employment. Won't be pretty a couple decades down the road, especially when the higher education bubble bursts too. Columbus, and actually most state capital/educational cities, like also Boston where I live, really need to consider the probable bleak future ahead and act accordingly.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,963 posts, read 6,891,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
You don't exactly know what you're talking about in regards to Cleveland, in my experience. Check out the number of restaurants downtown as well as entertainment venues and consider how those places could stay in business if it was such a dead city.

First of all, between the Cavs, Indians, and Browns, game days are about a third of the year, especially during play-off years. Then you have the Lake Erie Monsters and arena football home games, and other events at the Q, such as concerts. Venues such as the House of Blues and Hilarities create their own traffic.

Additionally, Cleveland with the new convention center, has much more convention business than in the past.

Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays often are pretty hopping, even without major pro games, especially in warmer months. Many downtown restaurants in Cleveland don't open until 5 p.m. on Sundays.

Finally, PlayhouseSquare has a fairly robust schedule, except for July and August vacation months.

With over 12,000 persons now living downtown, that also contributes to activity.

Admittedly, there are some days, especially work nights in the winter, from Sunday to Wednesday, when things are slow, absent a Cavs game downtown.

I've noticed that Market District often is busy when downtown is relatively slow. The breweries and restaurants there are big draws, likely because of free/cheap parking.

I was in downtown Cleveland recently on a nice Friday at lunch hour, and I was surprised at how dead East 4th St. seemed. Perhaps the lunch traffic was drawn to the Warehouse District or one of the weekly food truck/concert events downtown in the summer months.
Hey look, I love downtown Cleveland. I grew up in Cleveland. I go back twice a year. Don't get me wrong, there is a ton to do downtown and all over the city really. But compare the pedestrian activity levels of other cities to Ohio cities, and you really can't deny that other places are much more lively ?(not necessarily meaning "better"). I mean, Minneapolis isn't a much bigger city than Ohio ones, but it's got 40,000 people living downtown. Makes that 12k in Cleveland, and really the 6k in Columbus look like nothing, although certainly Ohio cities will continue to grow in core areas in the near future.
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Old 06-11-2015, 03:55 PM
 
7,234 posts, read 4,149,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Hey look, I love downtown Cleveland. I grew up in Cleveland. I go back twice a year. Don't get me wrong, there is a ton to do downtown and all over the city really. But compare the pedestrian activity levels of other cities to Ohio cities, and you really can't deny that other places are much more lively ?(not necessarily meaning "better"). I mean, Minneapolis isn't a much bigger city than Ohio ones, but it's got 40,000 people living downtown. Makes that 12k in Cleveland, and really the 6k in Columbus look like nothing, although certainly Ohio cities will continue to grow in core areas in the near future.
I don't agree with anything in this statement. Larger downtown residential populations obviously increase foot traffic, even later in the day.

My objection was to your earlier statement that Cleveland generally rolled up the carpets at 8 p.m. It's certainly true on nasty days in the winter, especially week days, but much less so from May through October.
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:04 PM
 
7,234 posts, read 4,149,289 times
Reputation: 3682
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
There is so much wrong with that article it's entertaining (in terms of solutions to Cleveland's situation). Cleveland spends tons of money on things that nobody wants or are completely inconsequential and they have high taxes. Hmm maybe that is a reason why people moved out? Making government regional will just force those people further out. Also, Columbus should enjoy this boom now, because I'm not overly optimistic about its future, what with being really dependent on the government for employment. Won't be pretty a couple decades down the road, especially when the higher education bubble bursts too. Columbus, and actually most state capital/educational cities, like also Boston where I live, really need to consider the probable bleak future ahead and act accordingly.
It's also true that the cost of services go up faster than goods, especially goods imported from low-cost nations and manufactured goods. Larkin didn't even mention this well established economic fact.

Larkin is not a deep thinker IMO. E.g., it would have been interesting to do a similar comparison for Columbus adjusted for inflation and population growth. Of course, Columbus greatly benefits from income transfers from the rest of the state as the state capital, which would have skewed the Columbus experience favorably.

Larkin and the rest of the PD, Cleveland media, and the Ohio media, have ignored the federal economic policies that have so punished the Ohio and especially the northern Ohio economies for the last half century.

In the last few years, they couldn't even get their act together to analyze and oppose the leveraging of the Ohio Turnpike, a new ball and chain anchored around the neck of the northeastern Ohio economy. Clevelanders should hold Larkin and his media peers in great contempt IMO.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:36 PM
 
Location: cleveland
2,038 posts, read 3,393,832 times
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^ very true. Cbus currently has 7000(?) People living downtown. As the population grows ,amenities will need to be added and linked. Otherwise living downtown is not convenient as it should be. It takes excellent long term vision and planning. Many cities including columbus can and should look to Cleveland for ideas. Cleveland was 1 step away from being Detroit, and now its booming.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:38 PM
 
7,234 posts, read 4,149,289 times
Reputation: 3682
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
I don't agree with anything in this statement. Larger downtown residential populations obviously increase foot traffic, even later in the day.

My objection was to your earlier statement that Cleveland generally rolled up the carpets at 8 p.m. It's certainly true on nasty days in the winter, especially week days, but much less so from May through October.
I meant to write that "I don't DISagree with anything in this statement." Sorry.
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