Columbus, how it grew and the misunderstandings (Lancaster, Westerville: city hall, buying)

[floridaorbust]

Originally Posted by NorthPoleMarathoner

You are expressing your opinion as fact.

People that live in suburbs and spend long times commuting do so by choice. They could live in the Columbus city limits if they wanted to.

Easton and Polaris are in areas signficantly removed from population areas? Franklin and Delaware Counties are not population areas?

Polaris is a shopping mall. It never pretended to be an example of urban planning. It is a few acres of land in an enormous metropolitan area. And you said it was put in an area significantly rmoved form a population center. So why would it need to be urban anything if there is no population around?

And fossil fuels? LOLs. People in Columbus use just as many fossil fuels as people in Dublin or Lewis Center. What about people that live in Columbus but work in Newark? I know plenty. Are they using too many fossil fuels? Should we just pass a law that limits how far a person can live from their work?

Why should anyone be concerned about fossil fuels anyway. In my short lifetime humans have survived:

overpopulation, new ice age, ozone layer depletion, acid rain, three mile island, killer bees from Latin America, bird flu, cancer causing cell phones, ddt, Kuwati oil fires, S.A.R.S., HIV, nuclear overkill, numerous food and water shortages, Exxon Valdez, red dye number 2, desertification, deforestation.............

Those are just the environmental non-disasters that I can remember. Somehow we survived them all. But I am supposed to worry about fossil fuels and global warming. LOLs.

Oh snap. We even survived the great landfill shortage in the 80s. Remember that barge full of garbage on the east coast proved we had no more room for trash and people were thinking of ways to send it to outer space. LOLs. Now that was some funny stuff.

I never understood why people think the environment is in such bad shape. Life expectancy in 1620s London was 26 years for women and 24 for men. What is it now? Approaching 80 in the industrailized world.

People are living longer, helathier, more productive and happier lives than at any point in human history. That is because of the industrial revolution and the evil fossil fuels. But now all of a sudden everyone has to live and drive a certain way? Gimmie a break.

I'm not trying to start an arguement here, but just because some people don't like sprawl doesn't mean it is evil or wrong.

What if Central Ohio decided to put a stop to all sprawl? What they will have done is to artifically make a plentiful resource (land) scarce. The value of said land will then be artificially expensive. This not only hurts people that would like to purchase the land in the future it hurts the people that already own it. And it might be one of the reasons for the recent housing crash.

Go to Davis California (where sprawl is illegal) and look at the price of land. Go 10 miles up the road to Woodland (where sprawl is legal) and see how much more affordable a similar property is.

Sprawl also forces the town that people are leaving to improve. If there is a mass exodous out of Columbus to the suburbs won't that force the city to start doing things to improve the city? In theory it does.

And blaming sprawl on developers, as an earlier poster did, is not very accurate. Developers won't build if people won't buy.

And why do we get mad at private developers? We are the ones buying up the property after they build. If we didn't buy it they wouldn't build it.

Personally, I don't care one bit to live in a sprawling surburb. So I don't. That seems to work for me.

But, it doesn't bother me if others want to.

two words on why people think the enviroment is so bad: Al Gore!
oh, wait, one more word: Hollywood Need I say more

[NorthPoleMarathoner]

Originally Posted by floridaorbust

two words on why people think the enviroment is so bad: Al Gore!
oh, wait, one more word: Hollywood Need I say more

I know. And I'm not saying let's go out and destroy the environment. I just think people like Al Gore make stuff up to scare people into giving money.

When the global warming stuff all started it was supposedly because of the sulfur. Then it just magically switched to CO2.

When we look at all the so-called environmental disasters that were going to happen it only leads me to believe global warming is made up.

And, why is Greenland named Greenland? It was discovered during a period of gloal warming. So, if there is global warming I say we embrace it.

I think there was some point in the 80s that we were going to run out of trees. LOLs.

I always ask people that are environmental doomsayers that if things are so bad why are people living healthier, happier and longer lives than anytime in human history. Shouldn't we be dying of environmental diseases? Same can be said for animals. Lots of them are living better than they were because of human intervention.

I'm getting way off topic here. And I'm not saying there are a bunch of environmental doomsayers on here. Just think using global warming as an excuse to determine how people should live is the quickest way to disaster for this country.

[floridaorbust]

what kills me about Al Gore, he didn't make his home "green" until 3-4 years ago. And didn't he invent the internet

I do think, though, that some of the pestisides in our produce and hormones added into our vege's and meats do some damage. A lot more people are becoming resitant to antibiotics. But, some people think taking a pill for everything will make them better too. Not letting their body take care of its own. Its a catch 22. I have to admit, I purchase our eggs and chicken without hormones.
Our feeling about Hollywood: entertain us. Thats it. As for Al Gore and the likes of Rosie O.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by floridaorbust

two words on why people think the enviroment is so bad: Al Gore!

I don't know where you read "Al Gore" in my post. I was focusing mainly on quality-of-life issues, which you're of course free to dispute...but its hard to take any counter-argument seriously when it consists entirely of hyperbolic name-dropping.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by NorthPoleMarathoner

You are expressing your opinion as fact.

I hope that doesn't come as a surprise, considering the way in which message boards operate. My opinion, yes, is that sprawl is generally detrimental to an individual's quality of life. That's my perspective of course; some people don't mind it. Others tolerate it out of necessity. But from where I'm standing, it's difficult to defend urban planning mechanisms that construct remote residential centers far removed from commercial or job corridors; or vice-versa.

Polaris is a shopping mall. It never pretended to be an example of urban planning.

I'm not certain what you mean by this. It's not a question of whether or not something "intended" to be urban planning; it is that by default. The Polaris "master plan" is a living, breathing definition of urban planning gone awry. it's not simply the mall, which is bad enough in its own right, but the litany of development that went with it, and it has been done so haphazardly and inefficiently that it's virtually impossible to hold it up as anything other than a planning disaster.

Why should anyone be concerned about fossil fuels anyway.

Because they are a finite resource. If you think unmitigated consumption of fossil fuels is funny--which I take that you do based on your sophomoric comments regarding it--then you'll surely find it to be hilarious when we look back fondly on the days when gasoline was only $4 a gallon. The short-sightedness exhibited by city planners across the country to continually push forward the boundaries of exurban areas with no thought given to whether such a development would be viable in 10, 20 or 50 years is woefully irresponsible.

[floridaorbust]

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

I don't know where you read "Al Gore" in my post. I was focusing mainly on quality-of-life issues, which you're of course free to dispute...but its hard to take any counter-argument seriously when it consists entirely of hyperbolic name-dropping.

Sorry, but I must ask. Did I quote you. That would be a negative.
The person I quoted did not mention Mr.Gore either. But when I hear all the enviroment and green stuff, he comes to mind. He created it. Sorry if I offended. Not my intention.

[YoungKevCash]

this is an aside to the current discussion, but can anyone tell me why there are a bunch of "townships" around Columbus that are these oddly placed, non-contiguous pieces? I tried looking at a map of Franklin County to try and find where i used to live in Columbus it was close to impossible.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

I live in a transit oriented development, in a 2400 sq ft house about 4 blocks from light rail, and I love it. Yeah the lot sizes are small but we have five parks in the neighborhood and I can walk to the grocery store, restaurants, Starbucks, etc... and I can take the train to the city, the airport, the stadiums, wherever. It's great!

But we love our cars too, and I don't begrudge anyone who wants to live anyone in the outer reaches of sprawl. I just don't get why you'd want to live someplace where it's impossible to walk or bike and you have to drive five miles just to get groceries. To each their own.

And I'm not worried about a post-petroleum world. People will get around in vehicles, they'll just run on electricity or garbage or something.

[1watertiger]

columbus population (metro) is spread out too far for light rail. too many suburban type areas with low density population/sq. mile. maybe a street car system from osu connected to downtown would work ? imo columbus needs to improve its bus service through-out the county first. columbus has a very poor transit system for a city its size.

[GeminiGal]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

columbus population (metro) is spread out too far for light rail. too many suburban type areas with low density population/sq. mile. maybe a street car system from osu connected to downtown would work ? imo columbus needs to improve its bus service through-out the county first. columbus has a very poor transit system for a city its size.

The majority of cities the size of Columbus have poor public transit systems. Reason being is that its not hard to get around a city/metro the size of Columbus, and most suburanites have a love affair with their car. This is always the great debate for a city this size.