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I do ride COTA to work and for some entertainment purposes. I have also ridden streetcars in Toronto, Portland, and Charlotte. I also live in the central city and do have global realization on the benefits of a reliable localized mass transit system. I think we are simply arguing a suburban VS urban perspective. I obviously have the latter. It may be a generational dilemma.
It's not a generational dilemma if you think I'm older then you. I'm actually probably younger, I'm a soon to be 22 year old OSU student. I think street cars are better in much more populated cities that you have rode them in, such as Charlotte, Toronto, etc. Columbus is just to spread out to really help out. It would only go up and down high st, which already has a steady bus line. There isn't really a need for it when we already have reliable transportation. We need to use the money on hiring more police,fireman, setting up incentives for big global/national companies to locate in Columbus and repairing the infrastructure (roads, sewers, etc.) If we do these things the economy and city will only get better.
Cuyahoga County Land Area and Population Density.Cleveland: Districts Ranked by Population Density.huskerdu, i agree, streetcreeds info is completely false. saying columbus has some of the highest density neighborhoods(to try and justify streetcars/light-rail) in the state is an absolute false statement. i compare cleveland because its my hometown, but im sure people in cinci. could also dispute streetcreed. the highest density districts in columbus that i glanced at were:victorian village 9378,german village 8081,short north 6552...im sure there are a few more. but as A CITY columbus avg. density is about 3000.compare that to cuyahoga suburbs and cleveland districts. its ok to be a cheerleader for your city, and we actually like columbus as ive said ,but its an avg. city with nothing really special about it for me... if you build something very expensive under false pretence the public ends up paying and cleaning up the mess.
A ticket for a red light camera .....
The red light running violations and the speeding tickets from camera systems are unconstitutional. You could have extenuating circumstances like an emergency situation, but you have to convince the COMPANY that you need a pass, not a JUDGE. I don't know how this is even legal. Maybe someone else does...
Oh you are looking at this as an opportunity for problems, not solutions.
My boss is a complete ass. So I took a picture of his license plate. Then I went downtown early Sunday when no one is out. Taped the picture of his plate to my plate. Ran the red light. Went a block and removed the picture.
I laugh my ass of at work when he ******* about the tickets he gets. I've given him three so far.
Oh you are looking at this as an opportunity for problems, not solutions.
My boss is a complete ass. So I took a picture of his license plate. Then I went downtown early Sunday when no one is out. Taped the picture of his plate to my plate. Ran the red light. Went a block and removed the picture.
I laugh my ass of at work when he ******* about the tickets he gets. I've given him three so far.
lol Are you serious? Don't they send a picture with the ticket? If so he would see it was you, if not that is such a good idea! lol
I have an intense dislike for Coleman, and his alcoholic wife. It's too close to my bedtime to start listing all the reasons why I can't stand him. Here are a few quick thoughts.
Streetcar: Why, why, why duplicate a route that already exists with the #2 bus, and even worse, not put in a park n ride. Where are people supposed to park if they want to take the streetcar? Park on campus, because there are so many great parking choices in that area? Yeah, fantastic idea...get back and find your car towed! Efficient public transit is great, but the streetcar idea, as propsed, is stupid. And I don't want to pay for it.
Oh, and I'm sorry to say, you are not going to attract suburban families downtown on a regular basis. They will shop at Easton, Polaris and Tuttle. Sorry to say, suburbanites don't want to take their families downtown. Case in point, City Center.
There are a lot of condos downtown that are not selling. Jeffrey Place comes to mind, and I know there are others that are now for lease because they can't be sold. I would not buy downtown unless I planned to stay a LONG time or lose a lot of money.
Trash service: Coleman pledged the city would never charge for trash service, but hey, it's the norm for politicians to say one thing and do another. If they were going to offer recycling, that would at least be a benefit, but it's the same old trash service.
Recreation centers: Close every center in the city before you reduce police or fire services. I have an awesome idea for the people who want to use rec centers: PAY! It's not my fault people have kids they can't afford, and I am sick and tired of the whining about how awful it is to close pools and recreation centers. Guess what, a lot of people grow up without pools and rec centers, and they don't turn to a life of crime.
Red light cameras don't bother me....don't run red lights and you won't get tickets.
Here's an idea for saving money on schools: get rid of the lottery system and have kids attend the school in their own neighborhood!
Now we can look forward to another income tax increase...luckily DH and I can afford it, but there are many people who cannot.
Basically, if you aren't poor or black Coleman doesn't care about you (other than getting your tax money). That might sound terrible, but it's the truth.
Recreation centers: Close every center in the city before you reduce police or fire services. I have an awesome idea for the people who want to use rec centers: PAY! It's not my fault people have kids they can't afford, and I am sick and tired of the whining about how awful it is to close pools and recreation centers. Guess what, a lot of people grow up without pools and rec centers, and they don't turn to a life of crime.
I couldn't agree with you more! Rec centers aren't necessary in a time like this we can't afford to quit hiring police. We have a constant stream of police retiring and we need to have recruits to fill these positions. I really hope that he doesn't get reelected, but because columbus is very democratic it is very unlikely that he won't win. I still can't believe he won after the scandal with his alcoholic wife and getting paid for not working!!!! I guess columbus doesn't care what kind of mayor they have, as long as he is just like them.
Streetcar: Why, why, why duplicate a route that already exists with the #2 bus, and even worse, not put in a park n ride. Where are people supposed to park if they want to take the streetcar? Park on campus, because there are so many great parking choices in that area? Yeah, fantastic idea...get back and find your car towed! Efficient public transit is great, but the streetcar idea, as propsed, is stupid. And I don't want to pay for it.
Oh, and I'm sorry to say, you are not going to attract suburban families downtown on a regular basis. They will shop at Easton, Polaris and Tuttle. Sorry to say, suburbanites don't want to take their families downtown. Case in point, City Center.
Again I think the issue that some lack the understanding of what a street car is meant to serve. A street car is not suppose to lure people from suburbs to come ride it is is supported by the activity on the retail corridor that it serves.
Columbus, with all of these comparisons to Cleveland, now has one of the liveliest retail/neighborhood corridor of all Ohio cities.
The High St. area between northern downtown, through the arena district, short north, and up to OSU's campus is a pedestrian entertainment and neighborhood area that has street activity along a long linear corridor nearly 20 hours a day. There is not other Ohio city with a this long of a constantly active and diverse income ratio, student ratio, and number of hotels and visitors along one busy street.
An area like this is meant to have a transportation system that constantly provides the ability to travel up and down it. This is the only area in the city that is pegged for a streetcar system. The High St. Corridor/OSU campus/Short North is a lively neighborhood that is the definition of a street car retail strip/neighborhood.
Thousands of people walk up down this corridor a day and the number two bus route is crowded to the point that buses have to run in doubles or triples to meet the demand. HOwever, buses come only once an hour later at night and only 2-3 times an hour after 8pm. This does not serve this corridor like a street car which would transport people through a area that is busy during the day with commerce and at night with hundreds of bars, arena, and entertainment venues.
In addition, thousands of people live on the corridor and driving up and down it and parking is ridiculous when you can take a efficient and accessible ride up and down it to get from retail, to office, to entertainment, to socialize, learn, attend work or school etc.
How dense all of Columbus is or how lively the city is on an aggregate would only be relevant if the street car was planned for the entire city, it is not is is planned for one of the liveliest, high and low income, dense neighborhoods/areas of the state.
Only one walk up and down high st. through these districts is needed to see that people populate and are out and about all of hours of the day. To truly develop a long linear retail/housing corridor spanning a few miles needs a constantly running localized mass transit option. Buses would only supplement the streetcar if they ran every 10 minutes from 5am to 2am.
Again I live in this corridor and am one of the thousands that travel up and down high st to shop and go about daily activities and travel to work. I do take the COTA bus and would prefer a better option that is proven to expand the already fast developing high st.
The reason there is debate over this is that yes it will only benefit those like me living or constantly in the corridor.
Also, a rd. in your suburban neighborhood costs tax payer money but is needed for your car to drive transport you. Does that mean that just because I won't use the rd. we dont build it?
No, Columbus does have dense urban areas like the area the street is proposed for but even thou near 100,000 people live among this area we are still a minority voice in a city of 730,000 citizens. An efficient way of getting up and down the High St. urban area, one of the most economic assets to the city and region, is necessary to long term economic growth for a highly sought after and used urban area as a road is in the suburban area for an SUV or minivan to travel.
As we speak this area is still seeing highrises go up and its demand is not hurt by the recession. Adding additional infrastructure only makes sense and it will only further the existing growth. Again many fail to see this growth as they may only stop by the area once in a while, but the growth is seen in the addition of visitor spending, higher property tax revenue to the city, and the formation of the only real areas that give Columbus any true visitor appeal and real 24/7 urban neighborhood.
Thus there is an argument from those who do not see the need for the service and how lively the short north/university district/arena district are 365 days a year. The area is not just a place people come to go out in for the weekend or attend an entertainment show it is a mini city that thousands call home and live in an urban environment with some of the most sought after property in the metro.
Last edited by streetcreed; 03-16-2009 at 10:09 AM..
IRecreation centers: Close every center in the city before you reduce police or fire services. I have an awesome idea for the people who want to use rec centers: PAY! It's not my fault people have kids they can't afford, and I am sick and tired of the whining about how awful it is to close pools and recreation centers. Guess what, a lot of people grow up without pools and rec centers, and they don't turn to a life of crime.
I strongly disagree with you (and other posters too) concerning rec centers. They are critical, and you would really regret having them shut down.
We don't have them out here in California, and the kids get into a lot of trouble that would be avoided if they had alternative activities. I grew up in the 1950's and early 1960's, so I understand the view of time before rec centers.
But times change, as do family structures. I can't change society, but don't want to create a situation where kids just get into trouble due to lack of constructive alternatives.
Come spend a few months in California, and you'll see what I mean here.
Again I think the issue that some lack the understanding of what a street car is meant to serve. A street car is not suppose to lure people from suburbs to come ride it is is supported by the activity on the retail corridor that it serves.
Columbus, with all of these comparisons to Cleveland, now has one of the liveliest retail/neighborhood corridor of all Ohio cities.
The High St. area between northern downtown, through the arena district, short north, and up to OSU's campus is a pedestrian entertainment and neighborhood area that has street activity along a long linear corridor nearly 20 hours a day. There is not other Ohio city with a this long of a constantly active and diverse income ratio, student ratio, and number of hotels and visitors along one busy street.
An area like this is meant to have a transportation system that constantly provides the ability to travel up and down it. This is the only area in the city that is pegged for a streetcar system. The High St. Corridor/OSU campus/Short North is a lively neighborhood that is the definition of a street car retail strip/neighborhood.
Thousands of people walk up down this corridor a day and the number two bus route is crowded to the point that buses have to run in doubles or triples to meet the demand. HOwever, buses come only once an hour later at night and only 2-3 times an hour after 8pm. This does not serve this corridor like a street car which would transport people through a area that is busy during the day with commerce and at night with hundreds of bars, arena, and entertainment venues.
In addition, thousands of people live on the corridor and driving up and down it and parking is ridiculous when you can take a efficient and accessible ride up and down it to get from retail, to office, to entertainment, to socialize, learn, attend work or school etc.
How dense all of Columbus is or how lively the city is on an aggregate would only be relevant if the street car was planned for the entire city, it is not is is planned for one of the liveliest, high and low income, dense neighborhoods/areas of the state.
Only one walk up and down high st. through these districts is needed to see that people populate and are out and about all of hours of the day. To truly develop a long linear retail/housing corridor spanning a few miles needs a constantly running localized mass transit option. Buses would only supplement the streetcar if they ran every 10 minutes from 5am to 2am.
Again I live in this corridor and am one of the thousands that travel up and down high st to shop and go about daily activities and travel to work. I do take the COTA bus and would prefer a better option that is proven to expand the already fast developing high st.
The reason there is debate over this is that yes it will only benefit those like me living or constantly in the corridor.
Also, a rd. in your suburban neighborhood costs tax payer money but is needed for your car to drive transport you. Does that mean that just because I won't use the rd. we dont build it?
No, Columbus does have dense urban areas like the area the street is proposed for but even thou near 100,000 people live among this area we are still a minority voice in a city of 730,000 citizens. An efficient way of getting up and down the High St. urban area, one of the most economic assets to the city and region, is necessary to long term economic growth for a highly sought after and used urban area as a road is in the suburban area for an SUV or minivan to travel.
As we speak this area is still seeing highrises go up and its demand is not hurt by the recession. Adding additional infrastructure only makes sense and it will only further the existing growth. Again many fail to see this growth as they may only stop by the area once in a while, but the growth is seen in the addition of visitor spending, higher property tax revenue to the city, and the formation of the only real areas that give Columbus any true visitor appeal and real 24/7 urban neighborhood.
Thus there is an argument from those who do not see the need for the service and how lively the short north/university district/arena district are 365 days a year. The area is not just a place people come to go out in for the weekend or attend an entertainment show it is a mini city that thousands call home and live in an urban environment with some of the most sought after property in the metro.
Streetcreed, you could type until your fingers fall off and I still won't be convinced the streetcar is a good idea. The fact is, people who live in that area are already served by the bus. You can also walk, bike or take a scooter, or a people mover. There are options. People will find a way to go about their business, even without a streetcar, and this is evident by the dense population and vibrant neighborhood. Now, look at Denver. They have a "mallride" which is a continuous loop of bus service, and it works nicely. Increase the #2 frequency or whatever, but a streetcar is a big old waste of money.
Not only would our taxes pay for a streetcar, but my parking fee would increase. No one is going to charge you an extra monthly fee for a road being built in the 'burbs.
NewtoCA, I have had the privilige of living in California, and you couldn't get me to move back I understand what you're saying, and I am not actually in favor of closing the rec centers, but I would rather have police and fire services. It's sort of like Coleman is trying to extort more money out of the taxpayers by cutting police, and then warning that the rec centers will close and kids will go out and cause trouble, and lo and behold, we don't have enough police! Everyone else has to do more with less, but not Coleman! And if see one more parent on the news complaining that their litter of kids won't have a place to play basketball... (there is no emoticon with steam coming out the ears, or I would use it).
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I understand what you're saying, and I am not actually in favor of closing the rec centers, but I would rather have police and fire services. It's sort of like Coleman is trying to extort more money out of the taxpayers by cutting police, and then warning that the rec centers will close and kids will go out and cause trouble, and lo and behold, we don't have enough police! Everyone else has to do more with less, but not Coleman! And if see one more parent on the news complaining that their litter of kids won't have a place to play basketball...
(there is no emoticon with steam coming out the ears, or I would use it).
