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View Poll Results: Will Apple ever overrtake Windows machines for personal/home use?
Yes 18 19.35%
No 75 80.65%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-15-2010, 10:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Apple wants total control of the end-user experience. While that sounds fascist to some, it makes sense. I know that others will think otherwise, but Apple has built a reputation for making computers that are solid, long-lasting, and generally does not have the problems that other computers have. Or at least not at the same frequency. So why would they want someone to run OSX on a computer that may go bust prematurely?

Also, Apple pushes new technology. They went all USB and removed legacy ports back in 1999 (or was it 1998?). They made firewire standard, and many hard-core Mac enthusiasts swear by firewire. The OS is just built around the way a Mac works, or vice-versa. While most Mac users do not use all the features of OSX, they still have the option. Really, it would not be the same "experience" on a Toshiba. Heck, even Windows works better on some PC manufactures than others.
I for one don't fault Mac for wanting to control the total end user experience. Also, controlling the product the way they do makes it far simpler for them to develop their product and keep it working correctly. If they were to release OSX to be used on "PC's" they would need to account for the massive variety of configurations and would suffer from some of the same complaints folks level against Windows.

As for going bust prematurely, that really isn't a factor. Mac's are just as prone to hardware failure as PC's are (especially considering that they now use all the same hardware from the same sources). There are plenty of PC's that have been around running great for 10+ years and there are Mac's that have died after a day of use.

When it comes to supporting legacy devices, it is simply the fact that Mac can specify whatever standard it wants whenever it wants. PC's for the most part are made to accomodate the largest pool of users and hardware available. Saying that Mac is an early adopter is sort of a myth. PC's had USB available at the same time and any PC manufacturer could have not provided legacy ports and connectors if they so chose. Also, firewire is a Mac developed thing, so it's no surprise that they cling to it, despite it never really catching on in the PC world. Mac continues to cling to it despite the rest of the world moving on to e-SATA.

Apple's desire to not make OSX more widely available is tied to their desire to maintain the boutiqueness of their PC business and reap the premium that they charge. They have made Mac as much a statement as it is a computer. I happen to think Mac's are very good computers, I just find it hard to justify the price premium. I don't think Mac really intends to overtake "PC's" anytime soon, they are pretty content with the business they have. In order to expand they need to open up a little more, particularly with the OS, but if they did that, they would cease to be "Mac" and would just be another "PC" brand.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,726 posts, read 29,336,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I for one don't fault Mac for wanting to control the total end user experience. Also, controlling the product the way they do makes it far simpler for them to develop their product and keep it working correctly. If they were to release OSX to be used on "PC's" they would need to account for the massive variety of configurations and would suffer from some of the same complaints folks level against Windows.

As for going bust prematurely, that really isn't a factor. Mac's are just as prone to hardware failure as PC's are (especially considering that they now use all the same hardware from the same sources). There are plenty of PC's that have been around running great for 10+ years and there are Mac's that have died after a day of use.

When it comes to supporting legacy devices, it is simply the fact that Mac can specify whatever standard it wants whenever it wants. PC's for the most part are made to accomodate the largest pool of users and hardware available. Saying that Mac is an early adopter is sort of a myth. PC's had USB available at the same time and any PC manufacturer could have not provided legacy ports and connectors if they so chose. Also, firewire is a Mac developed thing, so it's no surprise that they cling to it, despite it never really catching on in the PC world. Mac continues to cling to it despite the rest of the world moving on to e-SATA.

Apple's desire to not make OSX more widely available is tied to their desire to maintain the boutiqueness of their PC business and reap the premium that they charge. They have made Mac as much a statement as it is a computer. I happen to think Mac's are very good computers, I just find it hard to justify the price premium. I don't think Mac really intends to overtake "PC's" anytime soon, they are pretty content with the business they have. In order to expand they need to open up a little more, particularly with the OS, but if they did that, they would cease to be "Mac" and would just be another "PC" brand.
Good points.

I was just at Walmart today and saw pallets full of PC's on sale, right in the middle if the isles, for around $400.00. These probably come straight from China, but so are Apple computers and every other computer out there. All made in China, but Apple still manages to maintain a robust market strategy while asking premium for their products. Not only that, but Apple's customer's support is second to none.

There are a few other companies with excellent customer service, too. For example, Crutchfield, Cabela's, B&H, Adorama, and a few more.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,544 posts, read 26,382,104 times
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I cannot say for a fact that 100% of Apple Macintosh computers are 100% assembled in China using 100% Chinese parts. I don't know that anyone else knows, either. I think if it were 100% true there would be a greater failure rate - but I could be wrong. What I know is I have had 2 G4 Macs in service for 7 years during which time the only problem I had was one stick of bad memory in one machine. It was mismatched. They both came loaded with OS 9 and are currently rinning OS X Leopard and using ane Epson Workforce printer I bought last year. My PC of the same age does not recognize the printer. . .
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:59 PM
 
3,118 posts, read 3,935,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
I cannot say for a fact that 100% of Apple Macintosh computers are 100% assembled in China using 100% Chinese parts. I don't know that anyone else knows, either. I think if it were 100% true there would be a greater failure rate - but I could be wrong. What I know is I have had 2 G4 Macs in service for 7 years during which time the only problem I had was one stick of bad memory in one machine. It was mismatched. They both came loaded with OS 9 and are currently rinning OS X Leopard and using ane Epson Workforce printer I bought last year. My PC of the same age does not recognize the printer. . .
Couldn't help but notice you left out what OS you're using on that PC of the same age. It only stuck out to me because one of my printers is a Workforce 610, and my Windows 7 machines found it without issue.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:21 PM
 
3,743 posts, read 11,469,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
I cannot say for a fact that 100% of Apple Macintosh computers are 100% assembled in China using 100% Chinese parts. I don't know that anyone else knows, either. I think if it were 100% true there would be a greater failure rate - but I could be wrong. What I know is I have had 2 G4 Macs in service for 7 years during which time the only problem I had was one stick of bad memory in one machine. It was mismatched. They both came loaded with OS 9 and are currently rinning OS X Leopard and using ane Epson Workforce printer I bought last year. My PC of the same age does not recognize the printer. . .
If they are similar to iPhones, most parts come from countries other than China. Human labor costs are why things are assembled in China. its not so much the location where they are assembled but the quality of components and the QA in their builds.

I read in the paper this week that the iPhones components are 34% Japan, 17% Germany, 13% S Korea, 6% USA, 3.6% China, and 27% from other countries and less than China. Probably similar to other products. This engineering is not always appreciated by the public, but the benefits are real.

There are also things to consider like engineering - Apple products are designed to enhance convection of heat through the product rather than rely on fans to force air though, for instance. That engineering means less power draw, better performance, and less wear on parts.
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,139 posts, read 9,062,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
I cannot say for a fact that 100% of Apple Macintosh computers are 100% assembled in China using 100% Chinese parts. I don't know that anyone else knows, either. I think if it were 100% true there would be a greater failure rate - but I could be wrong.
Apple's products are assembled in China by Foxconn International, a subsidy of Hon Hai Precision Industry, using custom designed parts from a number of Apple suppliers, mostly in Korea and Japan. These molded batteries in MacBook Pros, are not something that just comes of the shelf in a Chinese factory, like a Dell battery would.

This article explains it pretty well.

For Apple suppliers, loose lips can sink contracts | Reuters

All of Apple's products are designed in Cupertino, and manufactured to Apple's specifications under their supervision. Just because Macs and PCs are produced in the same factory does not mean that they are built with the same parts or to the same quality.

But I'm sure that the PC fanbois will continue to delude themselves to believe that their $300 PC, is just as good as a $1000 + Mac. Even though most normal people could look at the two and see that the build quality is nothing close to the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
What I know is I have had 2 G4 Macs in service for 7 years during which time the only problem I had was one stick of bad memory in one machine. It was mismatched. They both came loaded with OS 9 and are currently rinning OS X Leopard and using ane Epson Workforce printer I bought last year. My PC of the same age does not recognize the printer. . .
My primary computer is still a Power Mac G5, which has been running flawlessly 24/7/365 for seven years now. Except for one single problem. That being a third party hard drive crash, that had nothing to do with Apple. So yeah, when something goes wrong with a Mac. It's usually something like RAM, hard drives, video cards and other non-Apple stuff like that.
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
... to believe that their $300 PC, is just as good as a $1000 + Mac.
Well, comparing a $300 PC to a $1000 Mac isn't really fair to begin with.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:24 AM
 
14,781 posts, read 36,597,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Well, comparing a $300 PC to a $1000 Mac isn't really fair to begin with.
Except for the fact that they most likely run the exact same hardware. On the other Mac vs. PC thread, I posted and have yet to get a legit response on a hardware comparison. That one was a high end 18" Toshiba laptop vs. the 17" Macbook Pro. They ran the exact same hardware (actually the Toshiba had a slight edge with a better video card and a bigger display). The Toshiba cost $1,000 LESS than the Macbook Pro. Apple products have always carried a premium. I would never say they are bad, or they aren't good, but it becomes hard to justify the price differential for most people, regardless of how pretty the case is.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:30 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 36,350,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Except for the fact that they most likely run the exact same hardware. On the other Mac vs. PC thread, I posted and have yet to get a legit response on a hardware comparison. That one was a high end 18" Toshiba laptop vs. the 17" Macbook Pro. They ran the exact same hardware (actually the Toshiba had a slight edge with a better video card and a bigger display). The Toshiba cost $1,000 LESS than the Macbook Pro. Apple products have always carried a premium. I would never say they are bad, or they aren't good, but it becomes hard to justify the price differential for most people, regardless of how pretty the case is.
And when asked, most people buying a PC say they want to use the Internet/email, and maybe Word and Skype. You don't need a high end computer (mac or PC) to do that.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:52 AM
 
14,781 posts, read 36,597,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
And when asked, most people buying a PC say they want to use the Internet/email, and maybe Word and Skype. You don't need a high end computer (mac or PC) to do that.
Exactly and Windows based PC's have an entry point several hundred dollars lower than any Mac. The cheapest Mac you can get is the mini and that starts at $699 (not counting the $49 mouse, $49 keyboard and the $999 monitor they want to sell you). The cheapest desktop computer they offer is the 21.5" iMac starting at $1,199 (at least that includes the monitor/mouse/keyboard) and the cheapest laptop is the standard Macbook which starts at $999.

Finding PC's that have comparable hardware to the cheapest Mac's, they all start in the sub-$400 range and some include the monitor/mouse/keyboard. It's really hard for someone who wants to browse the web and check their e-mail to justify paying double for a Mac.
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