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Old 11-02-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,646 posts, read 12,803,481 times
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I've tried and tried to find a linux distro I could love... been trying since Redhat 6 and it still ain't happened. I run into too many little cranks and quirks and irritations and unfinished places (why are there so many settings that refuse to stick??), and tho I started life as a commandline-junkie DOShead, anymore I have no tolerance for stuff that Doesn't Work Right or needs tons of tweaking to make it work. (Or for that matter, needs a dose of MAKE. IANAP, and shouldn't have to be one for everyday use, either.)

On that note of frustration... has anyone tried the newish Desktop BSD?
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:32 PM
 
102 posts, read 150,746 times
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Reziac,

Nice to hear you are plodding along with Linux for what it's worth. You'll find something you like. Have you tried Ubuntu or one of its variants? Linux can be challenging depending on your hardware especially.

I have tried DesktopBSD as well as PC-BSD. They are both good FreeBSD-based operating systems. Of the two, I prefer PC-BSD, as during install it will give you the chance to also install a vanilla FreeBSD system, but I just wanted to see what it was like. I removed it from my system after a couple of days.

One of the things I like about the BSDs over Linux is the fact that BSD is a complete operating system whereas Linux is just a kernel with whatever userland utilities and desktop manager/environment the developers choose to put on top of the kernel.

BSD for the desktop is not quite as easy as Linux, since more of the major hardware vendors have developed drivers for Linux than for BSD, but you can add a Linux emulation layer to BSD to allow it to run most Linux-based software. It may take a little tweaking to get everything working well, but it can be done.

I don't run BSD on the desktop, but I prefer it for server use, as it has a much better TCP/IP stack, and is generally a much better performer and more robust under heavy loads than Linux. Linux is simply a kernel, and the userland utilities and other things that make up a complete OS are not unified. They sometimes don't play well enough with each other to be 99% reliable for mission-critical work. Having said that, you can make Linux very reliable and very stable, it just takes a lot more work to do it. Embedded applications are one area where Linux really shines, though. BSD also has a fair chunk of the embedded market.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Denver
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Home:
I run Ubuntu on a VMWare host within MacOSX which is based off of FreeBSD .

Work:
I run Oracle Linux and Solaris (Unix) 10 on a global load balancer with M5000's.


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Old 11-02-2010, 02:53 PM
 
102 posts, read 150,746 times
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Mach50,

Very nice, indeed.

I need to find time to virtualize some stuff in Ubuntu server, but there's never enough time. One of my things to do is get another computer and load FreeBSD. I used to run BSD/OS Web servers back in the day, and I really miss the reliability and stability of the BSDs. I've played with them since, but nothing serious. Like you, I also like OS X.
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Denver
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I still have old FreeBSD 4x-5x laying around somewhere, my use of BSD is what sold me on MacOSX in 2001. BSD is definitely one of the most stable Unix like OS's out there, I used the heck out of it back in the day.
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:36 PM
 
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I guess Solaris doesn't count....
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:44 PM
 
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plwhit,

Solaris is a fine Unix variant, but it's had its day. Linux on commodity x86 hardware has largely seen to the death of Unix. IBM is about the only shop out there running proprietary Unix in AIX. HP runs some HP-UX stuff, but Linux and FreeBSD are now the workhorses of the Internet/WWW.

I used Solaris quite a bit back in the late 90s and early 2000s. But the license costs for proprietary Unices are outrageous, and there is nothing they can do that Linux or FreeBSD cannot do and do better and/or cheaper. Commodity x86 hardware and Linux are what Google built its empire upon as well as many other players.
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,646 posts, read 12,803,481 times
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To my understanding that's not quite true, especially with the really big databases -- linux simply can't handle the magnitude of those loads, so they still run on Solaris or some other UNIX, or sometimes BSD. Linux in particular has very poor caching, which can be a problem for heavy-use performance.

Google is a special case, being a distributed network running on (last I heard) somewhere around 12,000 commodity PCs. That sort of thing is suitable for linux, but no one of those systems could handle the load. (It occurs to me to wonder if given how the electric rates in CA are up to 10x what they were when Google set this up, if it might now be no longer cost-effective, but I'd guess their advertising empire keeps this from being a factor.)

BTW for many years Earthlink ran on Solaris for this very reason -- nothing else could handle 19 million users. Not sure what they're using now but it hadn't changed last time I talked to someone in NOC. (Tho nowadays you can't get a human there )
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,353 posts, read 16,132,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scifiwestern View Post
plwhit,

Solaris is a fine Unix variant, but it's had its day. Linux on commodity x86 hardware has largely seen to the death of Unix. IBM is about the only shop out there running proprietary Unix in AIX. HP runs some HP-UX stuff, but Linux and FreeBSD are now the workhorses of the Internet/WWW.

I used Solaris quite a bit back in the late 90s and early 2000s. But the license costs for proprietary Unices are outrageous, and there is nothing they can do that Linux or FreeBSD cannot do and do better and/or cheaper. Commodity x86 hardware and Linux are what Google built its empire upon as well as many other players.
Not true, large enterprises still need enterprise hardware and Unix (Oracle Sun, AIX, HP-UX) is it. We just ordered 2 more M5000's Oracle Solaris 10 machines: 32 cores a piece with the ability to scale upto 512GB of memory...(how many Linux machines would that take?)

Sun SPARC Enterprise M5000 Server | SPARC Enterprise Servers | Oracle

Plus people said the same thing about Mainframes...as I look at my emulator connecting to CICS and IDMS....

Large Unix Servers are here to stay.

Last edited by Mach50; 11-02-2010 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:28 PM
 
102 posts, read 150,746 times
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Reziac,

I agree that Linux is not best for very heavy loads. But I really doubt there is much that FreeBSD cannot handle, although most big FreeBSD shops designed their stuff around FreeBSD.

I also agree with you about the database issue. Solaris and AIX were designed from the ground up for these tasks. I'm very curious as to database virtualization and who may be doing this with monster databases. Most shops I know have not virtualized their databases yet.

As Mr. Spock would say, I find all of this "fascinating".
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