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Old 11-02-2010, 06:47 PM
 
783 posts, read 1,965,083 times
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Mainframes advance, but that's the point: these folks were buying antiquated mainframes and taking advantage of the virtualization features to save hardware and management costs. I believe it was system 390, which when Google was "taking off" had just been surpassed by something new and so were being offered at bargain prices. (I remember having a chance in about 1989 to buy AS/400s still unopened on the palette for about $1000 each, although I don't know if this correlates with the kind of deals sys390 purchasers may have gotten in 2000).

Linux has its issues for sure. I only operate a couple of my own webs and use it for a desktop, so it works great for me.
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:42 PM
 
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poptones,

Imagine having a mainframe in your basement. Are they 220v or 100? I've never had to pleasure of working with mainframes before so I cannot comment on them good or bad.

The biggest machine I've ever seen was a Sun E10K. I had to SSH into it for various tasks but only ever saw it a few times. I remember the guys that actually managed it were in awe of it and spoke very highly of its prowess.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,646 posts, read 12,804,374 times
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"Warning! You are logged into reality as root."

Hacker: "I reject your reality, and substitute my own."

Best status-line ever

Old mainframes can often be had for the bother of hauling them away. I know a guy in Alabama who has a couple he wishes were not cluttering his basement. Yours free, if you pay shipping at a couple tons apiece.

Responses more or less at random (this thread grew fast while I was out!!)

I messed with the naked BSD that Apple had for download back when they were first doing OSX, and decided I liked its more-finished feel much better than equally-naked linux. Things worked more as I expected them to (coming from DOS), and were smarter about "Did you mean...??" or help/man responses as appropriate. I haven't played with it since, but it left a good taste in my brain.

I looked up that PC-BSD, and it looks even more promising, if a little heavier since it uses a newer KDE than DesktopBSD... and when they're not being overly cute, I've generally preferred KDE to all other desktops (translation: I dislike Gnome, whose only reason for existence is SameGnome, and hate all the others!) Now if only I had the damnear 4GB of disk space to download the install image...!!

I've looked at Ubuntu ... 5 (meh), 6 (better), 7 (well, if I had to), 8 (but I still don't like Gnome!), and 10 gave me the raspberry and wouldn't even run the live CD (seems the problem is they've removed support for most video cards over 5 years old, which would be positively newfangled at my house). It does increasingly remind me of the Mac way of doing stuff, which I utterly detest. I suppose it's fine for its intended audience, but I expect more from an OS.

So far my fave has been Mandrake 7.2 (tho too may holes to be an everyday OS)... once I got done tweaking it to make it behave and stop making my eyes bleed, I was rather amused to discover that I'd recreated Windows95...!!! And I'd like to know how to bring its old version of Konqueror forward to use as an alt-browser on a newer distro, as it's the nearest thing to the speed and design of old Netscape 3 that I've seen yet.

Right now the test box has Mandriva 10.something, which was the only distro in the Large Pile of Disks From Last Month's User Grope Meeting that would agree to install ... the rest spit back the video card (SiS Xabre, being the last working spare AGP card I've got right now) and MDK doesn't like it much either, but will start after 2 or 3 busted attempts. Whereupon I discovered that it appears to have the same 3-memory-slots bug as Win9x, where if the mobo has 3 memory slots instead of two or four, it won't start if the total RAM is more than... 1GB, apparently. (It's really a hardware bug: 3 slots is functionally 2+2 overlapped. That's why >512mb RAM will work with unpatched Win9x if the board has 2 or 4 slots, but not if it has 3 slots.)

Have I mentioned my fearsome repute as "the beta tester who can break anything"??
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:45 PM
 
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Reziac,

You might want to give Salix OS a spin. Download the actual install disk not the live CD. I tried it the other day and I didn't think it was bad. It's based on Slackware and feels very BSD like. Slackware doesn't do dependency checking, but Salix OS added gslapt for dependency checking and it does an admirable job. I left it on my system for three days to test and then removed it. You might like it.
http://www.salixos.org/wiki/index.php/Home

If you really want to get off the beaten path and try something different, try Haiku, a *nix-like OS inspired by BeOS. Remember Be? I ran Be for about a year and loved it, but then the company tanked. Home | Haiku Project

The longer I use *nix the more of a plain-jane desktop environment I tend to like. Back in the day I used FVWM at work and also Window Maker, which, sadly, saw its last update back in 2005. I always thought Window Maker was the most elegant of the desktop environments even though it took eons to configure to your liking. It just worked once it was configured.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,646 posts, read 12,804,374 times
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I've been to the VMWare user grope a couple times, very informative. But from what I read from admins of really BIG setups, the VM thing has the same problem as linux, it's not designed to be a massive network or dB or suchlike. So they wind up reverting to big UNIX for those jobs, and using VMs more for workstations and such.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:57 PM
 
102 posts, read 150,774 times
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Reziac,

At my last job, they started to deploy virtualization with thin clients and it was a nightmare. I don't like virtual computing very much at this point. From what I've seen, read, and from people in the industry with whom I've spoken who manage customers that use it, virtualization is far from perfect and often presents as many problens as it is supposed to solve. I'd like to play with it and learn more about it, but right now I've got to work on other skills.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 22,732,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scifiwestern View Post
poptones,

Imagine having a mainframe in your basement. Are they 220v or 100? I've never had to pleasure of working with mainframes before so I cannot comment on them good or bad.

The biggest machine I've ever seen was a Sun E10K. I had to SSH into it for various tasks but only ever saw it a few times. I remember the guys that actually managed it were in awe of it and spoke very highly of its prowess.
Modern CMOS mainframes are about the same size as a fridge (just the main cabinet, of course ... things like tape silos require more space). Not sure about the power requirements, but they sure look small these days compared to the older sometimes water-cooled models.

ibm mainframe - Google Search

unisys mainframe - Google Search
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,646 posts, read 12,804,374 times
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http://www.haiku-os.org/slideshows/haiku-tour
"Access denied, You are not authorized to access this page. Please make sure that you are logged in"... might be cuz I had to turn off JS, they have some evil-tempered scripts that were running like pigs and never did stop reloading crap. -- I'd looked at BeOS back-when, but there again it reminded me of everything I disliked about MacOS... I really dislike coming at everything from the document, and for everything to only be in context to the document. I want to start from the OS and the app, under my control, not in response to what it thinks I want based on documents and templates.

I'm not after simplicity per se, but rather, completeness. -- My everyday systems tend to wind up very complex, with a large number of interrelated apps and overlapping datasets. (At last count, I had over two million files on this box, and that was 5 years ago. The DOS utils directory inherits all the way back to my original 286!)

The biggest irritations for an OS are "What do you mean, this doesn't work??" or "Why can't I do that obvious function??" and "How many times do I have to tell it, I want it done THIS way!" I've become quite proficient at beating Windows into submission (and when I'm done, it wouldn't dare crash! ) but part of my problem with linux has been that config stuff has either been too simplified, or too obscure, and in any event tends not to stick.

What was the question?
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:30 PM
 
102 posts, read 150,774 times
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Reziac,

After hearing all you've had to say, I can only say that you sound like the perfect candidate for one of the BSDs, especially FreeBSD.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,646 posts, read 12,804,374 times
Reputation: 3108
Yep, next time I manage to rediscover some disk space, I've got to download those desktop-oriented BSDs and give them a try.

I've also wanted to fiddle with Fedora as the more recent incarnations have looked halfway promising (at least viewed over someone else's shoulder), but it has never agreed to install on anything I've had as a test rig (the present one is a P4-2GHz with various random components, all salvage).
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