U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology > Computers
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-06-2010, 08:11 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,091,232 times
Reputation: 909

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Yes I've heard that argument before. But when a product or place becomes overwhelmingly associated with illegal activity, it draws attention and gets shut down. Its no different than when a liquor store gets known as the place for minors to buy, even if the store makes legal sales too, the ABC will cite them and eventually pull their license.
This is equivalent to shutting down every liquor store in the store's chain because of the action of a few of those stores. Imagine Wal-Mart being put out of business because three separate Wal-Mart stores sold liquor to underage teens. That is the argument you are making.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-06-2010, 08:18 PM
 
40,217 posts, read 41,808,108 times
Reputation: 16767
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Yes I've heard that argument before. But when a product or place becomes overwhelmingly associated with illegal activity, it draws attention and gets shut down. Its no different than when a liquor store gets known as the place for minors to buy, even if the store makes legal sales too, the ABC will cite them and eventually pull their license.
I think in this context your argument is wrong, the better analogy is someone of legal age purchased the liquor and gave it minors. For both file sharing and your liquor store example there is legal means to use both services and for both services those that can legally use it can also make illegal use of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 09:07 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,091,232 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Yes I've heard that argument before. But when a product or place becomes overwhelmingly associated with illegal activity, it draws attention and gets shut down. Its no different than when a liquor store gets known as the place for minors to buy, even if the store makes legal sales too, the ABC will cite them and eventually pull their license.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I think in this context your argument is wrong, the better analogy is someone of legal age purchased the liquor and gave it minors. For both file sharing and your liquor store example there is legal means to use both services and for both services those that can legally use it can also make illegal use of it.
You have to imagine the Liquor store as a single user, and alcohol is obviously the "content." The "chain" of the liquor store (We'll say Liquor R' Us) is the p2p software and websites. The actions of a few liquor stores, and the actions of a few liquor store chains is of itself not sufficient to shutdown all liquor stores belonging to a single chain, or all liquor stores in existence. Why? Because liquor stores are still selling their "content" legally, through proper channels and with permission of their users or content distributors.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,139 posts, read 9,057,023 times
Reputation: 7748
Here is my analogy. Shutting down Limewire is like shutting down an automobile manufacturer because they make cars with speedometers that exceed the legal speed limit. Hey obviously they are encouraging people to brake the law. Or maybe because they don't include some device in their cars to prevent people from driving drunk. Or maybe just because people use cars to commit crimes. Cars are the get-a-way vehicle of choice for bank robbers. So lets outlaw cars.

You don't shut down a legal product because people use it in an illegal manor. I feel sorry anybody who can't see that copyright laws are nothing more then corporate greed. They don't protect artists, they never have. They are just another example of one-sided agreements rammed down the consumers throats.

It's like when Walt Disney took public domain works. Turned them into movies. Then re-copyrighted them. And now they have the nerve to lobby congress to extend the copyrights on that work basically forever. So they can continue to profit indefinitely, on the work that they stole from the original artists.

Thats all that copyrights are good for. So corporations can steal from artists and rip off consumers. If you want to pay for it, fine go ahead. But if you don't, in most cases you are not stealing from artists, as the RIAA would have you believe. Generally the artists have already been paid most or all of the money they are going to get from that song. Just saying.

Copyright laws have long outlived their usefulness. It's time to find better solutions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 10:04 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,091,232 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Here is my analogy. Shutting down Limewire is like shutting down an automobile manufacturer because they make cars with speedometers that exceed the legal speed limit. Hey obviously they are encouraging people to brake the law. Or maybe because they don't include some device in their cars to prevent people from driving drunk. Or maybe just because people use cars to commit crimes. Cars are the get-a-way vehicle of choice for bank robbers. So lets outlaw cars.

You don't shut down a legal product because people use it in an illegal manor. I feel sorry anybody who can't see that copyright laws are nothing more then corporate greed. They don't protect artists, they never have. They are just another example of one-sided agreements rammed down the consumers throats.

It's like when Walt Disney took public domain works. Turned them into movies. Then re-copyrighted them. And now they have the nerve to lobby congress to extend the copyrights on that work basically forever. So they can continue to profit indefinitely, on the work that they stole from the original artists.

Thats all that copyrights are good for. So corporations can steal from artists and rip off consumers. If you want to pay for it, fine go ahead. But if you don't, in most cases you are not stealing from artists, as the RIAA would have you believe. Generally the artists have already been paid most or all of the money they are going to get from that song. Just saying.

Copyright laws have long outlived their usefulness. It's time to find better solutions.
GPL? GNU? Those are copyrights. The purpose of the copyright is to protect the work of the original artist\inventor\etc for first-rights use. Essentially, to make money before anyone else is allowed to.

A 75 year copyright is excessive for this purpose. Copyrights must expire so that the work can become distributed as part of the culture of a tribe.


Also, good analogy. You'll see the same logic (rightfully) applied by gun-rights groups.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 10:15 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 32,264,719 times
Reputation: 26145
Thank goodness Limewire is gone. The downloads were full of bugs...and I had to clean them off of computers...yeah!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 10:23 PM
 
40,217 posts, read 41,808,108 times
Reputation: 16767
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
I feel sorry anybody who can't see that copyright laws are nothing more then corporate greed. They don't protect artists, they never have.
The copyright laws in the US are actually quite good for the small time creator, its copyrighted by you when you create it.

Other than the length of copyright which can exceed a century I have no issues with the concept. If you create something unique you should have the ability to make up your own terms in how it's distributed. If you sell that copyright and another company monopolizes on it then so be it.

It's the consumer that flocks to the stores/internet sites to buy this endless stream of garbage that is at fault for the way things are. Instead of buying that "must have" album go find a local band and send them a few bucks for some music.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 10:42 PM
 
40,217 posts, read 41,808,108 times
Reputation: 16767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
GPL? GNU? Those are copyrights.
Those are licenses, copyright and the license are two distinct things.

In the case of the GPL it's a license an author can use to insure their work remains available to others and anyone using their work can still profit from it. It's commonly used in software applications to make sure code doesn't get hijacked for commercial sales. It doesn't prevent you from selling it however you need to release it to whoever you sell it too under the GPL.

For example I could download the full version of phpBB, if I can find a buyer I can sell it to them. LOL.

Where the GPL comes in is I can modify it for a client to fit their own needs, I can charge for that. The GPL insures they get the code free of any copyrights from me. From there they can sell it(under a GPL license) or even release it for free download if they wished.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 11:08 PM
 
713 posts, read 3,172,318 times
Reputation: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I'm surprised that these sites aren't shut down quickly, after the Napster debacle.

The RIAA just got done having a multimillion judgement against a private citizen for downloading songs.
The reason for this is that the government can't stop them all or has the power to do so. One site that has been under attack for years has been my personal favorite, The Pirate Bay. They have been to court and shut down many times only to be brought back up again a few days later. The owners have been sent to jail and new owners have taken their place. At the moment hackers are defending The Pirate bay and have attack sites belonging to the RIAA and other copyright companies over their hatred of TPB.

The link posted awhile back stated how a lady was sued for millions over a few songs. Well if every user of the site that uploaded illegally and downloaded illegally was charged in the same fashion, the amount of money owed would be higher than even the US deficit!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 11:25 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,091,232 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Those are licenses, copyright and the license are two distinct things.

In the case of the GPL it's a license an author can use to insure their work remains available to others and anyone using their work can still profit from it. It's commonly used in software applications to make sure code doesn't get hijacked for commercial sales. It doesn't prevent you from selling it however you need to release it to whoever you sell it too under the GPL.

For example I could download the full version of phpBB, if I can find a buyer I can sell it to them. LOL.

Where the GPL comes in is I can modify it for a client to fit their own needs, I can charge for that. The GPL insures they get the code free of any copyrights from me. From there they can sell it(under a GPL license) or even release it for free download if they wished.
Like I said. A copyright.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology > Computers
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top