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Old 02-15-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,244 posts, read 3,487,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I'll even give it to you that they make a more physically attractive product than the majority of PC builders,
I would argue this point to death since I come from the gaming view point. PCs are much more visually attractive compared to MACs. Of course we are not talking about $500 Dells, but any decent gaming pc will put an Apple computer to shame in terms of "coolness" factor. Not a single Powerbook was seen at DreamHack...

This is what Dell makes as their gaming PC model, and this is considered pretty average (even frowned upon by the custom builders) within the community since its still a DELL.






The Dells (Imo) can't hold a candle to Japanese Predators though:


Last edited by Gantz; 02-15-2011 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayantsi View Post
Can't you say the same thing about PC users that only think of computers as a sum or the price of the parts, and who wouldn't be caught dead buying a closed system like a Mac? I'm a Windows user, and a Mac user, and find there are people on both sides of the fence that make ridiculous, uneducated arguments for their side all the time. I don't get it since I know of none that actually work for MS or Apple.

Anyone that only thinks in terms of what it costs to buy something isn't thinking about what it costs to use something, and thats more important in the long run.

Sadly, these conversations always go off into the weeds talking about really obscure things like the price of a component, personal freedom to choose component x over what is provided, etc. You can buy a PC for less money than a Mac just like you can buy a Camry for less money than a BMW, or option the Camry to cost the same as a BMW and come with similar equipment. Even with similar equipment, there is an inherent difference still in the experience.

The real value in a Mac is the symbiotic OS and tested hardware environment, plus better UI design and quality control. That is why Apple is the industry leader in critical areas like user satisfaction and quality.

Anti-Mac conversations always fall to price - if that's all you've got, its not a good argument imo. But I am focused on user experience and design, not IT compliance and standards. OP had a very general question, so I'd ask, what are you really looking for, an experience or a piece of hardware?
The problem is that we aren't talking about a Camry vs. a BMW. We're talking about a Camry vs. a Camry. Except one of the Camry's came from a really nice dealer with great customer service, a better warranty and they put a body kit on to make it look nice. However, outside of all that it's still a Camry.

The Mac end wants to ignore the price differential because the only thing that makes the price different these days is the warranty, customer service, physical look and the name. Everything else is the same.

I think these "discussions" devolve into price, because there simply aren't really any differences between the products now that they are essentially using all the same hardware.

Again, the areas where Mac is better come down to the company itself, not necessarily the product. While I wouldn't question why someone would be willing to spend double the money for the service Apple provides, I think it needs to be known that you aren't buying a better computer, you're just buying from a better company.

The problem I have is that the Mac fans on the 3 or so threads I've participated in all seem to repeat the "it's better" line without being able to provide anything to justify that statement.

*************
Mac Pros:

Better customer service/support.
Better warranty.
Arguably better OS.

PC Pros:

Can cost up to half of what a Mac does for the same exact hardware.

*************

Two of the Mac pros are completely based on Apple the company and some PC manufacturers offer equal warranties. I don't think any of them offer the same level of support.

The OS argument is really one of preference. There is nothing that OSX can do that Windows 7 can't do and vice versa. Pre-Windows 7, I would agree that the OS argument was at least compelling for the average user.

I won't even get into software, because any productivity software is available for both and the only difference really comes down to games.

So, that leaves us with price, again the only real difference. Can you honestly justify the Mac "premium" based on the pros listed, or is there something I'm missing?
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:27 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,561,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
I would argue this point to death since I come from the gaming view point. PCs are much more visually attractive compared to MACs. Of course we are not talking about $500 Dells, but any decent gaming pc will put an Apple computer to shame in terms of "coolness" factor. Not a single Powerbook was seen at DreamHack...

This is what Dell makes as their gaming PC model, and this is considered pretty average (even frowned upon by the custom builders) within the community since its still a DELL.

The Dells (Imo) can't hold a candle to Japanese Predators though:
Having been into PC gaming for a long time, I could also counter that many of those rigs share the same issue as the Mac. You are paying extra for a look and a brand, not better hardware.

I think those kinds of systems, especially the Alienware ones are where many of the Mac fanboys get the idea that a "high quality" PC costs just as much as a Mac. What they fail to realize is that the Alienware is sporting the same guts as other PC's that can be purchased and/or built for a LOT less and return the same level of performance.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,346 posts, read 80,845,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayantsi View Post
Just buy a Mac; you'll be happier for it.
Just but a PC; You'll be happier and wealthier for it.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Having been into PC gaming for a long time, I could also counter that many of those rigs share the same issue as the Mac. You are paying extra for a look and a brand, not better hardware.

I think those kinds of systems, especially the Alienware ones are where many of the Mac fanboys get the idea that a "high quality" PC costs just as much as a Mac. What they fail to realize is that the Alienware is sporting the same guts as other PC's that can be purchased and/or built for a LOT less and return the same level of performance.
And thats why I said these rigs are frowned upon within the community. But still for the same amount of money as a MAC you can get a better looking ****ty Dell as the examples above show. I am not even going into custom rigs/mods here, because PC ruled this space since ancient Greece.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,097 posts, read 10,629,055 times
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The user interface is clearly a matter of personal preference. Mac people feel strongly about their preference. I've used both, but my work computers for many years have used Windows and i still have a hard time getting used to Apple's OS.

I have the impression that Macs boot up faster, probably because what they're opening is all integrated.

Apples tend to be nearly virus-proof, simply because the reprehensible malefactors who write viruses want to harm the largest number of people, which leads them towards Windows. Buy anti-virus software.

I'm really not into buying a MacIntosh, but their Macbook Air is a very light, very cool machine.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:47 PM
 
3,743 posts, read 10,942,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
The Mac end wants to ignore the price differential because the only thing that makes the price different these days is the warranty, customer service, physical look and the name. Everything else is the same.

I think these "discussions" devolve into price, because there simply aren't really any differences between the products now that they are essentially using all the same hardware.

Well, my Mac cost me half what I paid for my PC, fwiw. And the real difference is the operating system - I think there is huge value there, but like I said, these conversations always devolve into hardware discussions.

Besides, if the only benefit to a Mac is that it costs more, why do so many people buy them? Why buy a BMW when a Camry will get the job done? Its more than hardware, its how the thing works on the road - the Camry is an appliance, the BMW is a tool. You don't even need to get into a Mac vs PC thing to discuss this, just look at your basic $400 PC versus a custom built $4,000 gaming rig.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:49 PM
 
3,743 posts, read 10,942,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
And thats why I said these rigs are frowned upon within the community. But still for the same amount of money as a MAC you can get a better looking ****ty Dell as the examples above show. I am not even going into custom rigs/mods here, because PC ruled this space since ancient Greece.
So really, its elitism against any bought PC versus build your own? And this is what, 3% of the PC market? In any case, you are talking about a specialized computer for a niche, just something to be mindful of when talking about computers in general.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,346 posts, read 80,845,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayantsi View Post
Well, my Mac cost me half what I paid for my PC,
That really doesn't mean much to us because we don't know if we're comparing oranges to oranges (I deliberately didn't write apples to apples.)
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:06 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,561,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayantsi View Post
Well, my Mac cost me half what I paid for my PC, fwiw. And the real difference is the operating system - I think there is huge value there, but like I said, these conversations always devolve into hardware discussions.

Besides, if the only benefit to a Mac is that it costs more, why do so many people buy them? Why buy a BMW when a Camry will get the job done? Its more than hardware, its how the thing works on the road - the Camry is an appliance, the BMW is a tool. You don't even need to get into a Mac vs PC thing to discuss this, just look at your basic $400 PC versus a custom built $4,000 gaming rig.
Again, using the car analogy implies that there are hardware differences between them and there are not. The BMW has a better engine, better suspension, better tires, etc. That is what makes it "better" than a Camry. A Mac doesn't enjoy any hardware advantages to make the BMW vs. Camry analogy work.

I've already stated what I perceive the differences to be, but somehow you aren't able to provide anything concrete to dispute the fact that it comes down to the customer service/support, warranty and the OS (which isn't nearly the difference it used to be).

Maybe you see the value in paying the Mac premium, I don't. However, when people come asking about what kind of computer to buy, the Mac folks spit out that Macs are better...because...because...because, why? At least be honest that it comes down to nothing more than the factors I've been mentioning.

You ask why so many people buy them, well they don't as evidenced by market share and I venture fewer would if they knew that they weren't buying a better machine, just an arguably better company. Heck, even the Mac fanboys on here had no idea that every hardware component in their Mac is the same as in any comparable PC. Same processor, same motherboard, same graphics card, same hard drive, etc.

As for your PC costing more than your Mac, well so what? Whether that is a valid statement all comes down to the specs...oranges to oranges so to speak.
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