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Old 02-16-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,468,077 times
Reputation: 7703

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Dude, what part of matching up specs don't you understand. The bundle you quoted above, includes a monitor, at the $574 price point, something that doesn't come included with the Mac Mini.

Here is the link to the one I quoted, it comes with a mouse and keyboard (not included in the Mini) and without the monitor:

I tried to remove the monitor and mouse, but Dell wouldn't let me. I did remove the keyboard. Anyways Dell mice, keyboards and 17" monitors are hard to give away there days.


Processor Main Features: 64 bit Dual Core Processor
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

Do PC users really not see problem there? Regardless Snow Leopard is a 64 bit operating system. Plus the Mac mini has a larger hard drive, and more software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
As for the actual processor/memory specs, they are pretty much identical in terms of computing power. There are other attractive options as well from both Lenovo (Thinkcenter M70E) and Acer (Veriton VX275). Both of these use a more powerful processor, better video, more RAM and larger hard drive and come in at around $550.

As far as actually getting the exact form factor that the Mini uses, well that is harder. There are companies that make them, but they ring in slightly more expensive than the Mini. If we went the HTPC route, you would get something more similar, but most of those only come with Intel Atom processors.

So, out of all the examples I countered on, the only one you could really critique was the Mac Mini? I've proven you can get the same performance for less money in that case, it's just that you can't get it in the same tiny little box.

Edit to add: Many of the systems I chose have cheaper equivalents with equal performance if I was able to select an AMD processor. However, the deal was to go spec for spec, so I stuck with Intel. No matter how you dice it, I feel I was able to prove that there are much cheaper PC counterparts to every Mac and I only spent about 20 minutes looking for them.
The only thing you are stuck with is comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges. Why is that so hard for you PC fanbois?
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:23 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,627,232 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
FAIL again on specs. This would be comparable to a MacBook, NOT to a MacBook Air. I can't find any Asus models to compare to an 11-inch MBA.
Did you bother to Google the UL30A? It has a 13.3 inch display, is less than 1 inch thick and weighs under 4 pounds. The price fluctuates around (sorry you can buy PC's from more than one place), but it's about as close to a MacBook Air as you are going to get. As for hardware specs they are dead on.

Quote:
You FAIL again for your inability to look up the correct price. From Toshiba's website: Satellite L640-ST2N01 MSRP†: $699.00

That said, it's a good match to a MacBook. Backlight display, Multi-touch track pad compare nicely to the MacBook. Unfortunately the design and the build quality are just not there. All you have to do is read the reviews to see that.

Here is my configuration to compare with the MacBook. Again, if I'm wrong tell me where.

**************************

Intel® Core™ i3-380M Processor (2.53 GHz, 3MB Cache)
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional 64-bit
4GB DDR3 1066MHz SDRAM (2048MBx2)
250GB HDD (5400rpm, Serial-ATA)
DVD SuperMulti (+/-R double layer) drive
Fusion® Finish in Helios Black with Standard Black keyboard
Lithium-Ion Battery (6-cell, 48Wh)
Broadcom Wireless LAN (802.11b/g/n) and Bluetooth® Version 2.1 +EDR
No Modem
Microsoft® Office 2010 Starter
Norton Internet Security Suite (NIS) 2011 12-month subscription
1 Year Standard Limited Warranty
Laptop Price as Configured: $718.20
Accessories Total: $0.00
Your Total: $718.20
offer expires 2/17/11

*****************************

So it's a $280 savings, of the price of a MacBook. What do you get for it? Considerable lower build quality.
Again, unlike a Mac, PC's are available from multiple sites with multiple prices. Toshiba lists it at $699, but has a "prebuilt spec" discount of $50 bringing the price to the $649 I quoted.

Out of curiosity, what makes the one you posted a better comparison than the one I posted?

What build quality are you talking about? The case? Oh, my Mac is made of aluminum, so it's better. Please, Mac latops have the same issues as any other, they are made in the same damn factories. If you don't like the material/look/feel of the Toshiba, which of the other dozen laptop manufacturers would you like to go with.

Again, your argument of superiority and justification of price are opinion, not fact driven. At least others can admit that they buy Mac's because they are better for them, without reducing it to some universal superiority argument.

Last edited by NJGOAT; 02-16-2011 at 12:32 PM..
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:25 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,627,232 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
My point was that everyone is focusing on pricing rather than value. If a Mac helps you get what you need to get done better, then it makes sense to spend the extra dough. Reality is that most people have a preference in what they want to use.

Sure, Macs are a poor value if you only take into consideration the hardware power vs the $ spending, but there's more to it than that.
Fair enough, some people prefer Macs and they justify the price, because it is better for them. It doesn't mean it's a universally better product as others imply, just that it is better for them.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:31 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,627,232 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
Processor Main Features: 64 bit Dual Core Processor
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

Do PC users really not see problem there? Regardless Snow Leopard is a 64 bit operating system. Plus the Mac mini has a larger hard drive, and more software.
Well, Windows comes in both flavors. Of course, I wouldn't expect a Mac fan to even understand the difference between a 32-bit and 64-bit system. That PC comes with the 32-bit version as that's all it needs. In general the only real noticeable advantage of 64-bit is being able to address greater than 3GB of RAM.

The other systems I posted (albeir only being $100 or so less) are far more powerful and have 64-bit Windows 7.


Quote:
The only thing you are stuck with is comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges. Why is that so hard for you PC fanbois?
My computer can do anything your computer can do...but BETTER.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:35 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,227,916 times
Reputation: 12782
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Fair enough, some people prefer Macs and they justify the price, because it is better for them. It doesn't mean it's a universally better product as others imply, just that it is better for them.
Yup. I use PCs because it's not worth my time to relearn another system. I've tried, and can use Macs fine, but I find myself having to use the mouse more than just for browsing the web. Ugh, mice, what a horrible device.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,468,077 times
Reputation: 7703
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Did you bother to Google the UL30A? It has a 13.3 inch display, is less than 1 inch thick and weighs under 4 pounds. The price fluctuates around (sorry you can buy PC's from more than one place), but it's about as close to a MacBook Air as you are going to get. As for hardware specs they are dead on.
11-inch ≠ 13-inch. 2 pounds ≠ 4 pounds. Thats a 100% difference.

Again you need compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Not apples to oranges.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:03 PM
 
Location: USA
700 posts, read 955,077 times
Reputation: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
A much better analogy for sure. When it comes down to it, there is nothing about the Lexus ES that is measurably better than in a Camry. They have the same power, handling, ride quality, etc. What the guy in the Lexus is paying for is the Lexus name, Lexus styling and some nicer interior trim. Some will justify the price of the ES based on the perceived quality of the brand and the fact that the package looks better and feels nicer to interface with. However, that doesn't change the fact that the guy in the Camry is going to go just as fast at the drag strip or around the race track.
Yes, but the Lexus guy still feels better than the Camry guy! Besides, what have you been smoking that you're imagining Camrys at the drag strip or race track?

From someone that has both a Camry (mine) and the Lexus ES (my wife's), while they have common chassis and parts (from what I've read), there's a whole lot of difference in detail and execution.

Take for example the wiring. On the Lexus, there's actually a channel or canal where the wires are routed through. On the Camry, not as good. More attention to detail on the Lexus. Obviously, the stereo system, leather and the wood trim is better on the Lexus. Insulations, steering wheel, climate controls, etc... So's the paint. Come to think of it, there's hundreds of differences (wipers, blades, LED lights, etc...). And these are only things that I can see/feel right off the bat.

As for service, while my Camry was relatively new and still on warranty, I took it into the dealership for maintenance service. Had to wait at the customer waiting room where they had a TV, ripped magazines, newspapers, bad coffee, donuts and danish, that other waiting customers had already picked through. Not exactly third world, but like coach compared to first class. Luckily, they had a shuttle that took me to work and picked me up again at day's end. So not too bad.

Until my wife's Lexus was due for it's first scheduled service. Both of us couldn't go due to work. The dealership sent someone to pick up the car and delivered it back at end of day! No charge.

For the next scheduled service of the Lexus months later, I decided I wanted to do it myself, even if the dealership offered to pick it up again. The service facility was much, MUCH better. Everyone was nicer. Good coffee, tea, juice, water, danish, croissants, scones, etc.. Leather seats, TV, classical music in the waiting lounge. Wireless access. So nice that I decided to wait a couple of hours there rather than be driven home. My wife even showed up to check on me, since I didn't return her call. And stayed for a bit to chat with the staff. No charge.

I know it's not really "free" since it's all built into the car payment. But the fact that I wasn't charged anything at that point in time made a huge psychological difference. Overall, an excellent customer service experience. Even better than the BMW serice center we used to go to.

By the way, the price difference between the Camry and the Lexus ES was very reasonable. Almost negligible. We initially were going for a Camry, but when we loaded it up with everything my wife wanted on it, it was almost equal to the price of the base Lexus ES, which had all the features standard! With free maintenance for the first 3 years or mileage. Plus the finance rate was even better on the Lexus than the Toyota at that time. Initial price is not the only thing to consider.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,793 posts, read 10,657,913 times
Reputation: 3751
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Ah, and old ideas about Macs

Most PC's are cheaper than Macs, except as follows: Choose a high quality PC and place it next to a Mac, and both cost nearly the same, and will probably last just as long. But there aren't low quality Macs to compare to low quality PCs. And since the cheap PCs seldom last very long, I would recommend to buy either a top quality PC, or just two cheap PCs so the second one can be the spare one once the other breaks down.f[/url]
Yep. and I use a mac keyboard on my pc just because I prefer the quality more than anything available on the "real pc" side. Overall even when you do by a premium PC you will still notice that Macs in general are just quality computers. And you do pay a small premium for that.

I'm a graphic designer and use both platforms. I prefer the mac because it is much easier to use and get around on. But thats because I have been using it longer.

The entire reason for graphic designers to use a mac was its superior font handling and color management capabilities.

That point is moot now with advent of OTF fonts, although the mac does have better font management program. The point is also debatable because of the font limitations of web browsers. which forces most designers to work with a limited choice in fonts - although server side font management is just around the corner. Most people in general don't understand fonts and wont be able to see the subtle, yet profound differences between "arial" and "helvetica" anyway. And for gods sake stop using comic sans!

As far as programs go. the entire adobe CS suite (illustrator, indesign, photoshop, Flash, Dreamweaver et al) works equally well on both platforms, although I prefer the Mac.

There are also plenty of FREE open source available for both mac and pc. I prefer google docs over the MS office suite, especially word. AppleWorks is better than both, but so few people use it, it doesn't make sense to create documents for a general audience.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:17 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,627,232 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
11-inch ≠ 13-inch. 2 pounds ≠ 4 pounds. Thats a 100% difference.

Again you need compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Not apples to oranges.
Oy...well, I'll take the larger screen and burden myself with the extra 2 pounds. That 2 pounds will be tough seeing as I'm also lugging around an extra $420 in my pocket...
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:22 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,627,232 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastninja500 View Post
Yes, but the Lexus guy still feels better than the Camry guy! Besides, what have you been smoking that you're imagining Camrys at the drag strip or race track?

From someone that has both a Camry (mine) and the Lexus ES (my wife's), while they have common chassis and parts (from what I've read), there's a whole lot of difference in detail and execution.

Take for example the wiring. On the Lexus, there's actually a channel or canal where the wires are routed through. On the Camry, not as good. More attention to detail on the Lexus. Obviously, the stereo system, leather and the wood trim is better on the Lexus. Insulations, steering wheel, climate controls, etc... So's the paint. Come to think of it, there's hundreds of differences (wipers, blades, LED lights, etc...). And these are only things that I can see/feel right off the bat.

As for service, while my Camry was relatively new and still on warranty, I took it into the dealership for maintenance service. Had to wait at the customer waiting room where they had a TV, ripped magazines, newspapers, bad coffee, donuts and danish, that other waiting customers had already picked through. Not exactly third world, but like coach compared to first class. Luckily, they had a shuttle that took me to work and picked me up again at day's end. So not too bad.

Until my wife's Lexus was due for it's first scheduled service. Both of us couldn't go due to work. The dealership sent someone to pick up the car and delivered it back at end of day! No charge.

For the next scheduled service of the Lexus months later, I decided I wanted to do it myself, even if the dealership offered to pick it up again. The service facility was much, MUCH better. Everyone was nicer. Good coffee, tea, juice, water, danish, croissants, scones, etc.. Leather seats, TV, classical music in the waiting lounge. Wireless access. So nice that I decided to wait a couple of hours there rather than be driven home. My wife even showed up to check on me, since I didn't return her call. And stayed for a bit to chat with the staff. No charge.

I know it's not really "free" since it's all built into the car payment. But the fact that I wasn't charged anything at that point in time made a huge psychological difference. Overall, an excellent customer service experience. Even better than the BMW serice center we used to go to.

By the way, the price difference between the Camry and the Lexus ES was very reasonable. Almost negligible. We initially were going for a Camry, but when we loaded it up with everything my wife wanted on it, it was almost equal to the price of the base Lexus ES, which had all the features standard! With free maintenance for the first 3 years or mileage. Plus the finance rate was even better on the Lexus than the Toyota at that time. Initial price is not the only thing to consider.
You'd be surprised the number of Camry's I've seen at the race track. When TRD made a supercharger package for the older model, there were quite a few of them putzing around. Also, they are incredibly good bracket racers. (FWIW, cars/transportation is my business, so I am rather intimately familiar with those cars.)

So, basically the guy with the Lexus gets to stroke his ego a little more and marvel at the attention to detail in his car while sipping latte at the service center. However, in all measurable aspects his car performs just as well as the Camry and he's equally screwed when his accelerator gets stuck under the floormat.
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