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Old 05-17-2011, 01:29 PM
 
131 posts, read 262,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69 View Post
It's way easier to learn programming nowadays! Back in college from 1990 programming was primitive... no object oriented programming. Then I tried to learn programming in 1999. OOP existed. Tried to learn how to program complicated Windows programs with MFC but that was too complicated and there was not enough good documentation or code samples.

Nowadays a lot of that has changed! Programming has matured and become very object oriented, and there are more ways to program a Windows programs besides MFC... like WPF or Java. Microsoft now has code samples and video training on their website... like this -->

Visual Basic Application Samples
Get Started with the MFC Serializing Mechanism

Plus nowadays there are a lot of video training guides and computer pdf books to buy OR TORRENT! I never knew a thing about torrenting back in 1999. Nowadays I have over 50gb of torrented books on many subjects! I just love reading pdfs with Adobe Acrobat X! I can copy code from the PDF and paste it into Visual Studio. Or I can highlight text and Adobe Acrobat X will print out a compilation of these highlights in Microsoft Word. Best thing about PDFs no bookshelf space! You can carry an entire computer science programming library on a 32 GB USB stick!

Being unemployed now I think I can spend some of my spare time learning programming giving myself a "CS degree" - self-taught! Why spend $1000+ per course? There are quite a few people working the CS field without a CS degree... Some with English or Mechanical Engineering degrees too!
And Visual Studio 2010 is awesome compared to previous editions! I code, read a book, or see a programming video on two monitors! So much better than 1999!

And nowadays I learned about computer programming forums too... I never knew that existed in 1999!

But one thing still hasn't changed... It's still hard to program in MFC. 1999 MFC books are still applicable to today.

If I didn't go for my mechanical engineering degree, I would've gone for a computer science degree. But now being unemployed I can self teach myself this second degree. I'll take my time and enjoy the ride!

Do any of you program complicated Windows programs? How did you learn how to program like this?
How complicated programming can be depends on your type of audience. If you want to create a web page consisting of fluttering butterflies and skipping leprechaun's, you can drag and drop with an IDE (like most .net based applications) and use Flash or animated .gif's. But, if you are talking about developing applications that are used by business to perform/support their operations, that is an entirely different matter. This can be very complex and requires a developer to have knowledge of the root language.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:34 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,974,381 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69 View Post
NJBest - when did you go to HS? I went 1983 to 87 and the computer age was primitive back then. Computer classes were a joke. It makes me wonder what many good HS teach kids nowadays...
Let's just say that I graduated HS in this century. :-)

At my highschool, they are going to start a class in September on programming on the ipad. I am working with them to create a scholarship fund that is funded by app sales. The students make apps in the class, and they are sold in the app store. I donated 160 ipads to the school for the school to lend out for the year. We'll see how it goes.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
494 posts, read 1,467,590 times
Reputation: 431
Anybody can learn a language, but a CS degree and what is taught in a CS degree will teach you how to be a real developer. Complicated programs take lot's of planning and are usually takes more than one person doing the coding. You should think of software engineering as part coding and part project management. I was a great coder when I entered my CS degree as well, but I never really caught on the project planning part of software development. Thus, I struggled mighty with the degree. Sometimes I wish I could rewind my life and do it over, but it's too late now. Software Engineering is no walk in the park, and it's why companies pay big bulks for it. If you value a social life, it's definitely not for those with social lives.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:15 PM
 
484 posts, read 1,394,370 times
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Well I don't know what school you went to, but OOP programming classes and concepts existed in the early 90s.

I've seen MFC books. They do not teach you OOP programming. They teach you MFC. Knowing all the functions for a CWindow doesn't make you an OOP programmer. Unfortunately I've seen code written by people who didn't know OOP even though they were using an OO environment like C++... the resulting code is not OO.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:24 PM
 
484 posts, read 1,394,370 times
Reputation: 1443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69 View Post
Being unemployed now I think I can spend some of my spare time learning programming giving myself a "CS degree" - self-taught! Why spend $1000+ per course? There are quite a few people working the CS field without a CS degree... Some with English or Mechanical Engineering degrees too!
And Visual Studio 2010 is awesome compared to previous editions! I code, read a book, or see a programming video on two monitors! So much better than 1999!
I don't know what you mean by there are quite a few people working in the CS field w/o a CS degree. Every single software developer at my last company had a BSCS or MSCS degree. Over 100 developers. I was involved in interviewing candidates and we did not consider anyone who didn't have a BSCS at the minimum.

The people who work in the tech field w/o a CS degree aren't doing programming. They're either tech writers, usability designers, & QA testers. And many of the QA testers have CS degrees; only a few don't have them.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:45 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,974,381 times
Reputation: 12847
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Originally Posted by josh u View Post

The people who work in the tech field w/o a CS degree aren't doing programming. They're either tech writers, usability designers, & QA testers. And many of the QA testers have CS degrees; only a few don't have them.
This may be true for your company, but it's certainly not accurate about the field as a whole. There are a lot of programmers without a CS degree, or even a degree at all.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:55 PM
 
Location: in here, out there
3,064 posts, read 5,737,764 times
Reputation: 5109
Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar View Post
Yeah I guess with the internet most things are easier to do now.
Except getting a date.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:20 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,974,381 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles22 View Post
Except getting a date.
What does the internet have to do with getting a date?
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:44 PM
 
5,115 posts, read 4,722,255 times
Reputation: 4380
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh u View Post
The people who work in the tech field w/o a CS degree aren't doing programming.
Then what the heck have I been doing for the past 25 years?
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:14 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,974,381 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Then what the heck have I been doing for the past 25 years?
Yea, as you implied... that is the silliest thing I've heard in a while... ofcourse people without a CS degree are doing programming!
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