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Old 05-19-2011, 10:42 AM
 
1,475 posts, read 2,273,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh u View Post
I don't know what you mean by there are quite a few people working in the CS field w/o a CS degree.
I know what he means. People working in the CS field w/o a CS degree are leaders. How can you train someone to be a leader in IT when it takes 4 years to get a CS degree? Most of what they would learn in college would be old news. The skills they learn in college are good to have, but not really applicable to leadership. A leader looks to the future and you can't teach that.

But, don't get the wrong idea. A leader is a better leader if they are very knowledgable in various areas of study. However, training takes time to "develop the course" and leaders deal in what is new and cutting edge. So, training will help but won't produce a leader.
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:10 AM
 
1,475 posts, read 2,273,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Yea, as you implied... that is the silliest thing I've heard in a while... ofcourse people without a CS degree are doing programming!
I think you guys are missing one important thing. Yes, many programmers don't have a CS degree and many have been programming for 20+ years. But, think about this, 30 years ago the PC industry was new. So, the 20+ year veterns of programming were on the cutting edge and no schools had a really good program for them. So, they learned on their own.

These days the IT field has matured and colleges are training people. You want to be a programmer, you go to college. That's the right thing to do because programs are now available.

The OP's perspective is a modern one. Just like if you want to be an accountant, you go to college. You don't invent your own form of accounting. Back in the day we invented our own forms of programming. Now kids get trained by a school.

So, the people the OP sees as "non-programmers" are really leaders. They are the people leading they way and as such they aren't signing up for a programming class. They are taking on roles that let them lead. Like software design, where someone has an idea and they draw up some screens on paper then hand it off to the trained programmers.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:24 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,974,381 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_CD View Post
I think you guys are missing one important thing. Yes, many programmers don't have a CS degree and many have been programming for 20+ years. But, think about this, 30 years ago the PC industry was new. So, the 20+ year veterns of programming were on the cutting edge and no schools had a really good program for them. So, they learned on their own.

These days the IT field has matured and colleges are training people. You want to be a programmer, you go to college. That's the right thing to do because programs are now available.

The OP's perspective is a modern one. Just like if you want to be an accountant, you go to college. You don't invent your own form of accounting. Back in the day we invented our own forms of programming. Now kids get trained by a school.

So, the people the OP sees as "non-programmers" are really leaders. They are the people leading they way and as such they aren't signing up for a programming class. They are taking on roles that let them lead. Like software design, where someone has an idea and they draw up some screens on paper then hand it off to the trained programmers.
I'm not missing the point. I understand what you are saying, but what josh u said is simply just not true no matter what happened over the past 25 years. He wasn't talking about 20 years ago. He is talking about now. Most programmers today haven't been programming for 20 years. And many don't have a CS degree. It's a fact.

Ofcourse if you are interested in being a programmer, getting a CS degree makes sense. But that has nothing to do with the fact that there are people out there who are programming without a CS degree.

So I stand by the fact that saying that no one without a CS degree is a programmer is a silly statement and factually incorrect.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:27 PM
 
333 posts, read 735,688 times
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I think you mean, "It's way easier to learn syntax these days!"
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:21 PM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,595,214 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
The original Facebook was not complex in design at all. Now it's extremely complex, but it also has a solid development team.
What is the platform/code that social networking/media sites use? If you wanted to build one, what would you need in terms of knowledge and how long would it take to code the basic one?
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:04 PM
 
8,266 posts, read 10,842,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
What is the platform/code that social networking/media sites use? If you wanted to build one, what would you need in terms of knowledge and how long would it take to code the basic one?
A lot of their hires are actually needing client-side programming technologies, Ajax, javascript, jQuery are really in demand skills now.

When you go play around with cutting edge web apps like Amazon cloud drive much of the coolness isn't coming from the people who worked on the service or database layer, its from the resurgence in client-side programming as a legit and complex technology. It is somewhat ironic because a few years ago javascript was kind of a toy that was used for making rollover effects and popup boxes.
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,193 posts, read 22,575,431 times
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The mother of an ex GF learned programming on her own, and she dropped out of high school in the 10th grade. When her daughter was born, she figured she needed to do something so she enrolled into a few computer-related courses at a local community college.

It took her about ten years to learn it on her own, but she is now in her 50s and works as a project manager making around $113K a year.
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:08 AM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,551,295 times
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Learning programming is one thing. Learning to program well is entirely different. When you are tasked with maintaining code and find yourself in the middle of a 500+ line switch statement trying to fix a bug the difference between programming and programming well becomes readily apparent. That said if one is eager to learn, can take constructive criticism in the spirit with which it is offered, i.e. to improve the final product and one's skills, then there are plenty of resources and people out there who are very generous with their time and knowledge and you can have a very enjoyable career that you can do just about anywhere. Just understand that learning in the IT field is continuous. The technologies evolve and advance quickly. And it is important to appreciate good design. Programmers tend to just open an IDE and start slinging code before thinking about design. The whole move to agile has actually exacerbated this: hey, we're agile, we'll correct that in the next sprint. Invariably 'that' never gets corrected and maintainability becomes a nightmare.
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Wicker Park, Chicago
4,791 posts, read 13,329,995 times
Reputation: 1945
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
The mother of an ex GF learned programming on her own, and she dropped out of high school in the 10th grade. When her daughter was born, she figured she needed to do something so she enrolled into a few computer-related courses at a local community college.

It took her about ten years to learn it on her own, but she is now in her 50s and works as a project manager making around $113K a year.
Thank you for this inspiring story! I think an IT career is very difficult due to the need for constant updating to new technologies. That's why I like my Mech Eng field better. But I always found programming interesting and the dream of making a good program and money off of that was what kept me interested. But that is extremely hard to do. Guess it might take me 5 years to self teach myself CS in my spare time. But ever since 2000 I've very rarely seen job requiring engineering and programming skills; probably just saw 3 to 5 jobs in all.

It now would be better for me to learn web design and make money off of money making websites. But even good web design is complicated and takes a lot of time to learn! At least web design skills can help my Technical Writing career.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:25 PM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,551,295 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69 View Post
Thank you for this inspiring story! I think an IT career is very difficult due to the need for constant updating to new technologies. That's why I like my Mech Eng field better. But I always found programming interesting and the dream of making a good program and money off of that was what kept me interested. But that is extremely hard to do. Guess it might take me 5 years to self teach myself CS in my spare time. But ever since 2000 I've very rarely seen job requiring engineering and programming skills; probably just saw 3 to 5 jobs in all.

It now would be better for me to learn web design and make money off of money making websites. But even good web design is complicated and takes a lot of time to learn! At least web design skills can help my Technical Writing career.
Good technical writers are few and vastly under appreciated, often seen as an after thought on projects. I wish you well on that.
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