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Old 12-05-2014, 12:12 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
9,059 posts, read 6,392,593 times
Reputation: 9346

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
None of your experience makes any difference at all. Those of us here that have been doing computer support for a living know that infections happen. Sometimes they happen when careful users visit well-run web sites that have been attacked and not yet fixed. We are not going to sit still and let somebody tell a bunch of Internet users (that we don't know about their skills or experience) that it is OK to surf the Internet unprotected. We've challenged people like you that come in here and make statements like this for as long as this forum has existed, and we'll continue to do so.

Just in this thread alone, Tek_freek, NHDave and I represent people who have offered useful advice to people in this very forum for the last 7-8 years, together. We'll keep doing what we do, thanks.
Wow. Why are you making this personal with "people like you"? You know almost nothing about me other than I dare challenge, based upon my long life experience (I am old enough to be a grumpy old man ), what I'm told I must think. And that's what is going on here.

Yes, you guys who do "computer support for a living" see infections. And an Orthopedic surgeon sees broken bones. Doesn't mean John or Jane Doe is at risk of breaking a leg by walking to the store.

Yes, you can surf the Internet "unprotected"....unprotected by a bloated laundry list of additional software, that is. And I've proven it....over more years than any reasonable period required for a scientific sample.

By all means keep doing what you do. No one, least of all me, is saying you shouldn't. But none of your experience makes any more difference to me than mine does to you.

I am presenting another point of view, based on long life and computer experience. Life experience is a key point here....because this "modern" era in which we live is one of serial psychological stampeding. At no time in our history has there been less tolerance for independent thought and more societal demand for lock-step adherence to the "approved" viewpoint on all issues of the day. And that is also what is going on here.

You're the moderator here and you set the tone. If differing viewpoints are no more welcome here than they are, for example, in the Green Living forum, just let me know and I will gladly stay away. I'm here to provoke thought, not ruffle feathers.

Have a nice day.

Last edited by CrownVic95; 12-05-2014 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Concord, NC
1,211 posts, read 1,966,196 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittheroadjack View Post
Before Time Warner installed a faster internet modem.............the problem is getting me exhausted because I know very little about windows 8, or about computers in general.......so I do not push many buttons for fear that I may do more harm than good....
I don't know how a new modem would add new updates. You can do some internet searching on the issue. I have successfully deleted files in the path that I previously posted and it has fixed the issue. I found that solution on the internet. With Windows 8.1, I have had to delete those files and one more database type file to fix an issue with firmware updates on a Surface Pro 2.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:02 PM
 
28,611 posts, read 40,594,929 times
Reputation: 37281
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Wow. Why are you making this personal with "people like you"? You know almost nothing about me other than I dare challenge, based upon my long life experience (I am old enough to be a grumpy old man ), what I'm told I must think. And that's what is going on here.
You are missing the point. Or you are intentionally being obtuse. I honestly can't tell which.

Browse the Internet however you want. Protection , no protection, doesn't matter to any of us. The concern is that others who don't understand what it is you do to browse unhindered by viruses, malware, etc (you claim) will think it's a way to save money, or any other reason, and emulate you.

Not having the "experience" you keep bringing up will inevitably lead to their computers becoming infected. And if you are going to claim that won't happen, then yes, perhaps you should discontinue posting here because you are doing those users a great disservice.

You've posted good things here, and helped people. This subject, while it's interesting, isn't one that you should tout.
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:35 PM
 
40,210 posts, read 41,799,403 times
Reputation: 16749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
....doesn't matter to any of us.
Actually it does matter to me because it's the Crownvic's of the world with infected machines that they may not even be aware of being used to constantly probe my server or spam my web sites using up valuable resources that I have to pay for.
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Old 12-06-2014, 05:45 AM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
9,059 posts, read 6,392,593 times
Reputation: 9346
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Actually it does matter to me because it's the Crownvic's of the world with infected machines that they may not even be aware of being used to constantly probe my server or spam my web sites using up valuable resources that I have to pay for.
I've been reading this kind of nonsense from day one on the Internet. And, in the early years, I didn't have much on which to base a decision as to whether to give it any credence.

Now I know that it is, in fact, the paranoia that it appears to be. Right up there with McCarthyism, the Truthers, and the fanatical global warmists.

Good grief
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:20 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,714 posts, read 11,305,024 times
Reputation: 7698
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
None of your experience makes any difference at all. Those of us here that have been doing computer support for a living know that infections happen. Sometimes they happen when careful users visit well-run web sites that have been attacked and not yet fixed. We are not going to sit still and let somebody tell a bunch of Internet users (that we don't know about their skills or experience) that it is OK to surf the Internet unprotected. We've challenged people like you that come in here and make statements like this for as long as this forum has existed, and we'll continue to do so.

Just in this thread alone, Tek_freek, NHDave and I represent people who have offered useful advice to people in this very forum for the last 7-8 years, together. We'll keep doing what we do, thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Wow. Why are you making this personal with "people like you"? You know almost nothing about me other than I dare challenge, based upon my long life experience (I am old enough to be a grumpy old man ), what I'm told I must think. And that's what is going on here.

Yes, you guys who do "computer support for a living" see infections. And an Orthopedic surgeon sees broken bones. Doesn't mean John or Jane Doe is at risk of breaking a leg by walking to the store.

Yes, you can surf the Internet "unprotected"....unprotected by a bloated laundry list of additional software, that is. And I've proven it....over more years than any reasonable period required for a scientific sample.

By all means keep doing what you do. No one, least of all me, is saying you shouldn't. But none of your experience makes any more difference to me than mine does to you.

I am presenting another point of view, based on long life and computer experience. Life experience is a key point here....because this "modern" era in which we live is one of serial psychological stampeding. At no time in our history has there been less tolerance for independent thought and more societal demand for lock-step adherence to the "approved" viewpoint on all issues of the day. And that is also what is going on here.

You're the moderator here and you set the tone. If differing viewpoints are no more welcome here than they are, for example, in the Green Living forum, just let me know and I will gladly stay away. I'm here to provoke thought, not ruffle feathers.

Have a nice day.
I want to address a couple of points here. You quoted my statement "people like you" and went on to say I know nothing about you. What I said was "We've challenged people like you that come in here and make statements like this for as long as this forum has existed." I'll stand by my statement because it can be verified. You can go search this forum and find that we have indeed challenged other people that suggested it was OK to surf the Internet unprotected. The statement I made is that it is bad advice to give someone who's skills and surfing habits are not known, other than the fact that they came to an Internet forum to ask for Computer advice. Nowhere did I imply that you shouldn't surf bareback if that's what you want to do.

I am not the Moderator here, and I don't set the tone for this forum. This forum has no specific Moderator (it is listed as team moderated). That means that any moderator may step in and deal with a problem or a reported post. (I have done that, as have several other moderators.) My opinion is that the "tone" of this forum was set in part by ShadowCaver when he was the Moderator assigned to this forum. As evidence, multiple moderators have referenced his Sticky post at the top of the forum. I've been posting in this forum since 2008 and have seen a level of trust and reliability develop among the regulars here, including Tek_freek and NHDave that I mentioned earlier.

Differing points of view are fine in any discussion. Implying that surfing without protection is OK for casual readers of the forum is something I consider irresponsible. These casual readers are the people we "don't know anything about." We should offer advice that is useful for the average person reading it.

BTW, just because I am a moderator does not imply that I'm not going to participate in forums that interest me.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:43 AM
 
40,210 posts, read 41,799,403 times
Reputation: 16749
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
I've been reading this kind of nonsense from day one on the Internet.
Log files don't lie Crownvic, you can ask the same question of anyone running a server and they are going to tell you the same thing. I block about 1000 spam registrants per day and many of the IP's can be traced to residential connections. That is just one small segment of the overall issue. In the time I typed this there has been numerous attempts to log into FTP, SSH, mail and probes for exploitable files. Not sure what the percentage is but a great deal of them are from residential machines.

If your machine has become part of bot net they aren't necessarily interested in your machine. They are interested in using it against other machines and try and fly under the radar. They don't want to alert you to it's activities. One of the major ways you avoid that is by keeping your system up to date.

Last edited by thecoalman; 12-06-2014 at 09:09 AM..
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:01 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,714 posts, read 11,305,024 times
Reputation: 7698
Oh yeah, I should have included thecoalman among the list of trusted regulars.
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Old 12-06-2014, 11:45 AM
 
28,611 posts, read 40,594,929 times
Reputation: 37281
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Log files don't lie Crownvic, you can ask the same question of anyone running a server and they are going to tell you the same thing. I block about 1000 spam registrants per day and many of the IP's can be traced to residential connections. That is just one small segment of the overall issue. In the time I typed this there has been numerous attempts to log into FTP, SSH, mail and probes for exploitable files. Not sure what the percentage is but a great deal of them are from residential machines.

If your machine has become part of bot net they aren't necessarily interested in your machine. They are interested in using it against other machines and try and fly under the radar. They don't want to alert you to it's activities. One of the major ways you avoid that is by keeping your system up to date.
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Old 12-06-2014, 12:50 PM
 
Location: HoCo, MD
4,591 posts, read 8,195,924 times
Reputation: 5138
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Wow. Why are you making this personal with "people like you"? You know almost nothing about me other than I dare challenge, based upon my long life experience (I am old enough to be a grumpy old man ), what I'm told I must think. And that's what is going on here.

Yes, you guys who do "computer support for a living" see infections. And an Orthopedic surgeon sees broken bones. Doesn't mean John or Jane Doe is at risk of breaking a leg by walking to the store
Actually - John or Jane Doe is absolutely at risk by walking to the store. Risk is essentially the potential of harm. In this case, vulnerability (bones can break), threat (fall, accidents, etc.) and possibility exists. Thus, there is a risk. The risk may be small, but it's there. The fact that it's never happened doesn't mean there is no risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Yes, you can surf the Internet "unprotected"....unprotected by a bloated laundry list of additional software, that is. And I've proven it....over more years than any reasonable period required for a scientific sample.

By all means keep doing what you do. No one, least of all me, is saying you shouldn't. But none of your experience makes any more difference to me than mine does to you.
I don't think anyone is disputing that it can be done... the question is, from an risk management stand point, should it be done? I've never been in a traffic accident. Nor has my parents, my wife, or the majority of my friends. That doesn't mean seat belts or air bags are not necessary.

In the end, it's up to the individual on what they wish to do. And while your experience can't be disputed (or can it? we'll get to this in just a sec...), it's also not considered "best practice". Fact is that applications are written by people, and there is no such thing as perfection, or 100% security.

Now, back to my earlier point...let me ask you this question - can you prove you've never been compromised? Certainly you've never discovered anything, or have never experienced a loss of data. But that doesn't mean you've never had a potentially malicious piece of software installed on one of your systems. Not saying it has. The point is that is can also happen without it ever being discovered.
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