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Old 08-10-2016, 01:00 AM
eok
 
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Why not just use Linux? It's free. The command line shells are very powerful. Such as Bash, which has zillions of nifty features you don't have to learn till you need them. Have you ever found yourself wishing your command line shell (such as command.com or cmd.exe on Windows) had certain features that would make your work easier? With Bash, whenever you have that kind of wish, it pays to do some research to find out if it might have that feature after all. Because it usually does. It's often hard to find nifty features in the manual, because it's hard to figure out what name they would go by. A lot of them don't even have names. But if you keep reading the whole manual repeatedly, while getting more experience with Bash, you will keep discovering nifty features you missed when you read the manual before.

Windows is very limiting. It's designed to make things easy for people who don't have time to read manuals. They severely limit its capabilities, to avoid causing confusion to such people.
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Old 08-10-2016, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 22,745,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsAll View Post
Hey, I used to use 4DOS (by JP Software) and their later 4NT! And I'd even met the developer (or at least one of the developers) of said programs. In fact, I first met him, I believe, at an OS/2 Users Group meeting in the early 1990s and that may have been where I first bought 4DOS (it was shareware).
I used both 4DOS and 4OS2 fairly heavily. Still use 4DOS under DOSBox. Didn't like Take Command. Rex and Tom were both good guys, but I just met Rex online, not in person. Never ran into Tom, I don't think. The Shareware community was pretty small back then, especially on the OS/2 side.

Bash could learn more than a few lessons from the 4DOS family. The SELECT command in particular. Yeah, you can use mc for point-and-shoot operations, but it's nice to embed a visual file-tagging interface into aliases.
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Old 08-10-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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You can sometimes do fancy things in "DOS". :-)
Attached Thumbnails
Does anyone choose to be committed to ONLY using very old OS's and maybe even choose to not use a GUI-based OS at all?-geos201.jpg  
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Old 08-11-2016, 04:18 PM
 
2,513 posts, read 2,526,201 times
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Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
You can sometimes do fancy things in "DOS". :-)
Yes, although it has limited memory space and limited ability to multitask, limited file system, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. But one can make it look semi-attractive and make it somewhat useful with these "guasi-graphical" environments such as what you show. Such environments included Digital Research's Graphical Environment Manager (GEM) or Open GEM, Cybex Power Shell, and probably others as well.
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Old 08-11-2016, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 22,745,181 times
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Originally Posted by UsAll View Post
Yes, although it has limited memory space and limited ability to multitask, limited file system, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. But one can make it look semi-attractive and make it somewhat useful with these "guasi-graphical" environments such as what you show. Such environments included Digital Research's Graphical Environment Manager (GEM) or Open GEM, Cybex Power Shell, and probably others as well.
The GUI shown in my post above is PC/GEOS, the Motif-based GUI that came with the Geoworks Ensemble 2.01 application suite from GeoWorks (formerly known as Berkeley Softworks, makers of GEOS in the C64 world).

I think it may be still marketed as Breadbox Office unless it's been sold off.

PC/GEOS wasn't just a DOS menu system ... it had a preemptive kernel and supported up to two threads per process for its own native applications, and it could also run on fairly old hardware (286 with 1MB of RAM).

(That's the same toolkit that AOL used for it's original PC-based "DOS" client, by the way, before they created a client for Windows.)

PC/GEOS also handled long filenames on an 8.3 FAT16 filesystem gracefully, something MS didn't do until somewhat later with Windows 95. It wasn't able to multitask DOS programs, tho. You had to use something like DESQView if you wanted to do that, or alternatively use a DOS program like Telemate which has its own windowed environment and allowed for limited concurrent DOS activities (a virtual command prompt windows and text editor alongside its own terminal emulation windows).

I played with GEM a little, but I'm not that familiar with it ... I preferred a QuikMenu+PC/GEOS environment when I wasn't in OS2 juggling VDMs. OS/2 2.0 and later quickly became my favorite "DOS" environment.

Last edited by rcsteiner; 08-11-2016 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 08-11-2016, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 22,745,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Short answer: Yes. I deal with numerous businesses that are still on XP, NT and 2000.

DOS is not gone. Those of us in the business use MVS, but we have to use an emulator to use it. It's much easier to type a path using a few words than clicking numerous windows to get where one is going. Numerous large retail companies still use JDA; type a few numbers and you are where you want to be within seconds.
Not sure what the relationship is between DOS on Big Blue Iron and IBM's PC-DOS. I say Big Blue Iron because I'm a UNIVAC/Sperry/Unisys and slightly Burroughs A-box guy myself, so I'm used to seeing Big Iron running OS 2200 or MCP.
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Old 08-11-2016, 06:03 PM
 
2,513 posts, read 2,526,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
The GUI shown in my post above is PC/GEOS, the Motif-based GUI that came with the Geoworks Ensemble 2.01 application suite from GeoWorks (formerly known as Berkeley Softworks, makers of GEOS in the C64 world).

I think it may be still marketed as Breadbox Office unless it's been sold off.

PC/GEOS wasn't just a DOS menu system ... it had a preemptive kernel and supported up to two threads per process for its own native applications, and it could also run on fairly old hardware (286 with 1MB of RAM).

(That's the same toolkit that AOL used for it's original PC-based "DOS" client, by the way, before they created a client for Windows.)

PC/GEOS also handled long filenames on an 8.3 FAT16 filesystem gracefully, something MS didn't do until somewhat later with Windows 95. It wasn't able to multitask DOS programs, tho. You had to use something like DESQView if you wanted to do that, or alternatively use a DOS program like Telemate which has its own windowed environment and allowed for limited concurrent DOS activities (a virtual command prompt windows and text editor alongside its own terminal emulation windows).

I played with GEM a little, but I'm not that familiar with it ... I preferred a QuikMenu+PC/GEOS environment when I wasn't in OS2 juggling VDMs. OS/2 2.0 and later quickly became my favorite "DOS" environment.

I forgot about DESQview. That was popular for a good while and looked appealing and intriguing.
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Southern California
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I don't know people that use old OS, with no gui, but I do know of new OS with no gui which are mainly servers and firewalls. Other things that stayed non gui, but for economical reasons would be a phone system.
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Old 08-13-2016, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Amelia View
4,244 posts, read 12,772,939 times
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New and improved doesn't always mean useful to everyone.

I still use a flip phone because that's all I need - a phone ... I don't need nor want to carry around a mini-computer.

I still use my XP laptop because my ancient version of Quicken won't run on anything higher, and my Quicken serves my purposes perfectly because there's nothing more I need nor want to do with it. Upgrading just to add features that are of no use to me or to give a fresh look is a silly waste of time. Same thing goes for my genealogy program.

Same thing with OSs. I'm stuck with Win 7 64 bit because that's all that was out there when I replaced my Win 95 desktop. Certainly it handles certain files (like pdfs for example) better than Win 95 or XP, but there is absolutely nothing above Win 7 that would actually improve my computing life. Thus, to upgrade just because "everyone else" is doing it is dumb.

My first machine had Win 3.1, and if I had my druthers, I'd still be using it. In days of yore we had command of the computer, and few instances of automatic presumptions occurred. When a glitch happened it was obvious what it was and we could fix it. Today's OSs either think we're stupid or believe we'd rather let the computer do a lot of behind-the-scenes work. Thus when glitches happen, we have to dig to find the problem, and then sometimes whatever "broke" is so integrated into the OS it takes a ton of effort to find the solution and fix it.

So yes, I willingly choose to be a dinosaur. I watch my father upgrade his Quicken every other year or so and his TurboTax every year, and each time life becomes more and more complicated. There's a presumption by Quicken that everyone does everything online and that everyone keeps up with the latest and "greatest" OS and that everyone is migrating to using smart phones and tablets. The presumption is incorrect.

While I'm not saying technological advances should slow down, I am saying that the brains and/or wallets of many just can't or won't keep up. Those with the inability or who outright refuse to move along with the flow of advancing technology shouldn't be labeled as stubborn nor unintelligent nor inferior.
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Old 08-13-2016, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 18,270,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mawipafl View Post
...I still use my XP laptop because my ancient version of Quicken won't run on anything higher, and my Quicken serves my purposes perfectly because there's nothing more I need nor want to do with it...

Same thing with OSs. I'm stuck with Win 7 64 bit because that's all that was out there when I replaced my Win 95 desktop...

I watch my father upgrade his Quicken every other year or so and his TurboTax every year*...
So what are you going to do next year? Assuming you use Turbotax. Intuit told us XP users it will not allow us to install/download TT next year on an XP computer (although we'll be able to access TT "in the cloud" - which I didn't want to do). That was what got me started in terms of buying a new system. I suspect my banks/brokerage firms will be following suit in terms of limiting XP access to accounts not too far down the road.

Note that I use an even older money management program than you do. Managing Your Money (for DOS). It's a 16 bit program that won't work on a 64 bit operating system. I am currently running it and another old program on an XP laptop. If anyone knows - would DOSBox allow me to run this program on a Windows 10 64 bit computer?

BTW - I'm a little unclear in terms of exactly what computer(s)/operating system(s) you're using.

Finally - I'm kind of agnostic when it comes to the old/new discussion/argument. There are a couple of things I have/like that are old. But some new ones that I like too. I sure wouldn't want to go back to the days of my first computer. An IBM 5120 (for my office):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5120

Talk about not-user friendly. And it was - especially by today's standards - hideously expensive too (I paid about $20,000 - which would be about $58,000 adjusted for inflation). Robyn

*A tax program is one program that has to be updated every year.
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