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Old 08-09-2016, 05:17 PM
 
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QUESTION: Just a curious question that occurred to me yesterday. Are there still any people at all in our present-day world who willfully choose to use very old and outdated operating systems as a way-of-life (e.g, DOS, Windows 3.1, older versions of Mac OS prior to OS X, IBM OS/2, et al) and maybe even some who willfully avoid and bypass the use of any GUI (graphical user interface)-based operating system altogether to instead ONLY use a character-based operating system such as DOS (e.g., MS-DOS, FreeDOS, IBM PC DOS, Novell DOS), CP/M, and others? And do you yourself know or have you known any such persons and, if so, why do they do so? That is, why do they consciously and willfully abhor using a modern-day operating system (and then, with some of them, especially a modern-day GUI-based operating system)?


NOTE: I am NOT thinking about persons who do so because they are so very poor that they can't afford anything better but rather am thinking only of those who willfully choose to be very very far behind in capabilities, features and functionality compared to more modern-day operating systems.


I have, in fact, personally known such persons in the more distant past. Are there STILL any people who willfully bypass all the benefits of Windows after Windows 95/98/XP (up to the present Windows 10) or Mac OS X El Capitan and now its followup called MacOS Sierra, Android, iOS, Linux, and so on to instead stay locked into doing literally everything in DOS or Windows 3.x or a very old version of Mac OS (e.g., OS 9, OS 8,. OS 7, and so on) or a character-based non-GUI-based version of Linux? Or other discontinued OS's (whether character-based or graphical-based) such as PalmDOS, Symbian, Amiga OS, Atari OS, Apple ProDOS, and so on?

Why oh why oh why would they put themselves at such a great disadvantage with this one and only life they have to live (assuming they aren't forced to do so by pure economic considerations)?
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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I used OS/2 Warp 4 until the magic smoke leaked out of my PPro's power supply sometime in 2006-2007, but I have to admit that I wouldn't continue to use it as my primary OS today.

Probably.

I love the command line. My 4DOS environment was fairly sophisticated, and I had good GUI tools for file management, image editing, a good menu system in QuikMenu III, etc., as well as very good email tools (PC Pine, Yarn) and an ok web browser in Arachne. Well, it used to be ok.

Windows 3 with Aporia, WinTools, or IBM's WorkPlace Shell for Windows wasn't actually that bad.
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
I used OS/2 Warp 4 until the magic smoke leaked out of my PPro's power supply sometime in 2006-2007, but I have to admit that I wouldn't continue to use it as my primary OS today.

Probably.

I love the command line. My 4DOS environment was fairly sophisticated, and I had good GUI tools for file management, image editing, a good menu system in QuikMenu III, etc., as well as very good email tools (PC Pine, Yarn) and an ok web browser in Arachne. Well, it used to be ok.

Windows 3 with Aporia, WinTools, or IBM's WorkPlace Shell for Windows wasn't actually that bad.

Hey, I used to use 4DOS (by JP Software) and their later 4NT! And I'd even met the developer (or at least one of the developers) of said programs. In fact, I first met him, I believe, at an OS/2 Users Group meeting in the early 1990s and that may have been where I first bought 4DOS (it was shareware).


TO CONTRAST THOSE DAYS-OF-OLD FROM WHAT I USE NOW IN THIS YEAR 2016 (computing-and-electronics technology-wise):

Being a techie type who aims to keep knowledgeable and familiar with the latest prevailing technologies, I own (per this writing) representative hardware for ALL the presently-prevailing hardware and operating system platforms:

  1. A high-end self-built desktop tower PC (Windows 10 Pro-based, though can run earlier Windows versions or non-Windows OS's in a virtual OS window within Windows)
  2. 2 PC laptops (Windows 10 Pro-based, though can run earlier Windows versions or non-Windows OS's in a virtual OS window within Windows)
  3. a MacBook Pro running Mac OS X El Capitan . . . and optionally Windows 10 Pro (running Windows 10 Pro within Mac OS X using "Parallels Desktop for Mac" . . . instead of using Boot Camp to run Windows)
  4. an Android 7" tablet
  5. 3 Android smartphones (my Samsung "phablet" and the other two are my two prior smartphones held onto as fallback phones)
  6. an iPad Mini

And I am inclined to also get a Windows 10 7" tablet as well . . . or, instead (or in addition?), I might get a compact 2-in-1 hybrid laptop/tablet (like the Lenovo Yoga, for instance) which runs the latest Windows 10 Pro version.


And the present OS's run (whether run as full booting OS's or whether running within a virtual OS environment) are:

  1. Windows 10 Pro
  2. Mac OS X El Capitan (and looking to upgrade to the newer MacOS Sierra)
  3. Android
  4. iOS
  5. Linux (most usually running Linux Mint but have also dabbled in openSuSe, Fedora, Puppy Linux, and Ubuntu) <-- MOST TYPICALLY WILL RUN LINUX WITHIN A VIRTUAL OS ENVIRONMENT WITHIN WINDOWS OR WITHIN MAC OS X, BUT SOMETIMES WILL BOOT A COMPUTER TO LINUX USING LINUX ON A USB THUMB DRIVE


TYING IN TO THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THIS THREAD: I can't imagine limiting myself to only using the ancient and discontinued DOS or Windows 3.1 or Mac OS (whether version 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 ... all versions which were prior to Mac OS X) or Apple ProDOS or OS/2 or PalmDOS or Symbian and so on. Yet I have known some persons who do just this, one of them maybe as late as 2008 when I knew him (and he didn't even own a smartphone or even a basic cellphone) . . . though maybe he does now in year 2016 (after all, who can live in the modern-day world without a mobile phone AT ALL and, if economics is the primary limiting factor, you can get a "pay-as-you-go" phone if you have to or, if you are even poorer than that, can be given a subsidized phone. Heck, even many many homeless people (at least in the USA) are said to own a smartphone . . . typically a "pay-as-you-go" phone or else a subsidized phone such as the so-named "Lifeline Assistance Obama Phone".

Last edited by UsAll; 08-09-2016 at 07:49 PM..
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Diaspora
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Short answer: Yes. I deal with numerous businesses that are still on XP, NT and 2000.

DOS is not gone. Those of us in the business use MVS, but we have to use an emulator to use it. It's much easier to type a path using a few words than clicking numerous windows to get where one is going. Numerous large retail companies still use JDA; type a few numbers and you are where you want to be within seconds.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:18 PM
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Location: Ohio
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I know a couple of blind people who use computers. One of them has real difficulty mastering a graphical interface, but he's perfectly content working in the command line, with a screen reader.

People who design web sites need to realize that there are people who might be reading them who are fully dependent on the site's text for understanding the site's content.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Short answer: Yes. I deal with numerous businesses that are still on XP, NT and 2000.

DOS is not gone. Those of us in the business use MVS, but we have to use an emulator to use it. It's much easier to type a path using a few words than clicking numerous windows to get where one is going. Numerous large retail companies still use JDA; type a few numbers and you are where you want to be within seconds.
I wasn't thinking of Windows XP, Windows NT, and Windows 2000 as "old and ancient OS's" (per se). I was thinking more particularly of Windows versions prior to Windows 95 , which are/were all MS-DOS-based versions of Windows (which would be Windows 1.0, Windows 2.0, Windows 3.0, Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11, Windows 3.11 for Workgroups . . . and note that even Windows NT 3.51 had the same look-and-feel of Windows 3.0/3.1). Microsoft then made a radical changeover in the look-and-feel, workabiity, features and functionality of Windows when it introduced Windows 95 (compared to what transpired before it) . . . and then continued using this same same paradigm of look, feel, and workability with the later Windows 98, 98SE, ME, Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8/8.1, and now Windows 10.


The point is that I can still see individuals (and most certainly enterprises of all types) using XP, NT 4.0, and 2000. More
particularly the server OS's like NT and 2000 more than Windows XP if they are an enterprise (and then using MVS, which I assume you are referring to the most-commonly-used OS on the IBM System/370 and System/390 mainframe computers).


As to DOS: All Windows OS versions after Windows 3.x have the command prompt environment that can be brought up in a window (as does Mac OS X, Linux, and all other variants of Unix). In the present Window 10 family, you can bring up the "Command Prompt" or, even more powerfully, can use the Microsoft-supplied "PowerShell" built into Windows. Or you can run FreeDOS or 4DOS or 4NT or DOSBox and other such DOS shells within Windows through a virtual OS environment (including "Hyper-V" which comes built into Windows but I haven't personally tried yet) or other free virtual OS environments such as Oracle VirtualBox, Bochs, or VMPlayer) or else commercial virtual OS environments such as VMware and others.

Last edited by UsAll; 08-09-2016 at 08:40 PM..
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
I know a couple of blind people who use computers. One of them has real difficulty mastering a graphical interface, but he's perfectly content working in the command line, with a screen reader.

People who design web sites need to realize that there are people who might be reading them who are fully dependent on the site's text for understanding the site's content.

It is conceivable to me that such physically-chalenged persons (in this case, visually-challenged), in the way that you describe it, would find it less "busy" and "challenging to have a simpler "command line interface" to work with rather than a complex, multi-layered, multi-faceted environment such as a modern GUI-based OS like Windows or Mac OS X or Linux or Android or iOS or Chrome OS presents them with.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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"limiting myself to only using the ancient and discontinued..."

Your words betray you. You have been infected by the "tech superior" virus. It is common, and even becoming ubiquitous.

Whatever works. I've seen guys with an abacus or a slip stick do magic before others can get through a power-up sequence. I've seen builders use a bit of string and a stone to build plumb and square. The laws of physics don't change depending on your operating system.

Delete any access to the internet and a lot of "smart" suddenly goes REALLY stupid. Data acquisition is commonly built using the absolute simplest technology possible because of the robustness, reliability, and ease of replacement/repair. Arduino and Raspberry Pi pretty much recreate the OS capabilities you dismiss.

Another factor you miss is that "re-learning" is a complete and utter waste of time and resources. Time is the essence of life. I don't care how smart and stylish you think something new is, if you think I am going to waste weeks or months re-learning some minion's variation of something I already know, you can dream on.

I use an ancient version of Quicken on an ancient OS that rarely is even on. I know exactly what the capabilities are, they are what I want, I have records going back years, and those after my money and time can suck it.

However, if you want to feel superior because of your use of software that constantly reports on you, is constantly under attack by hackers, and requires your spending hours trying to learn - only to have to re-learn at the next upgrade - , then please, by all means, go ahead. It can be fun to watch.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:40 PM
 
2,508 posts, read 2,520,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
"limiting myself to only using the ancient and discontinued..."

Your words betray you. You have been infected by the "tech superior" virus. It is common, and even becoming ubiquitous.

Whatever works. I've seen guys with an abacus or a slip stick do magic before others can get through a power-up sequence. I've seen builders use a bit of string and a stone to build plumb and square. The laws of physics don't change depending on your operating system.

Delete any access to the internet and a lot of "smart" suddenly goes REALLY stupid. Data acquisition is commonly built using the absolute simplest technology possible because of the robustness, reliability, and ease of replacement/repair. Arduino and Raspberry Pi pretty much recreate the OS capabilities you dismiss.

Another factor you miss is that "re-learning" is a complete and utter waste of time and resources. Time is the essence of life. I don't care how smart and stylish you think something new is, if you think I am going to waste weeks or months re-learning some minion's variation of something I already know, you can dream on.

I use an ancient version of Quicken on an ancient OS that rarely is even on. I know exactly what the capabilities are, they are what I want, I have records going back years, and those after my money and time can suck it.

However, if you want to feel superior because of your use of software that constantly reports on you, is constantly under attack by hackers, and requires your spending hours trying to learn - only to have to re-learn at the next upgrade - , then please, by all means, go ahead. It can be fun to watch.

True. If one wants any of the "benefits" of having the newest OS's and hardware capabilities, it often ALSO entails taking on greater complexity, a greater learning curve, security challenges (though I imagine that earlier OS's were even MORE insecure than later OS's), and so on. Or often enough so. It is a tradeoff. Acknowledged.

I don't necessarily upgrade to the latest software version of every software program or package I have (whether commercial or free). For instance, I'm still satisifed with my Corel Paintshop Pro X5 Ultimate, even though at least 3 later versions have come out since then (I don't need the extra enhanced features, as my graphics needs are more layperson needs rather than those of a professional graphic artist or designer . . . though I was one of the days before personal computers became used and ubiquitous. Or my Paragon Hard Disk Manager 14 for Windows appears to do whatever I need and then some, so I haven't upgraded it to later versions yet. Yet, for a program such as Quicken, one's bank or other financial institutions or parties (brokerages, PayPal, et al) may not work with a patcular Quicken version or even earlier versions if it is too old and hence they expect you to upgrade to a later (if not the latest) version. So I've had Quicken Home and Business 2009 and then all my financial institutions needed me to update to Version 2011. But since then, I'd held on to that version 2011 until very recently, when I upgraded to Quicken Home and Business 2016 (only because enough changes have happened in banking since then which made it wise, if not even necessarry, to do so). So Quicken is an example of a software package that one needs or may well need to keep current (because the financial institutions and parties one deals with may expect it in order to continue to work with them).


You have to undertand this about me in particular: I am a techie for a living (as well as a major hobby) and so, to be able to provide assistance to multitudinous others (and/or to write or author about such subject matters, which I have to some degree and hopefully will do more of in the times ahead), I need to keep on top of what the world-at-large uses . . . even if I myself wouldn't normally use it or even like it personally. So, if it were just me using computers and electronics just for my own personal use only, I would just be using Windows and having a single Windows laptop only (or perhaps one more Windows laptop as a fallback computer) and then just an Android phablet. BUT, being a techie who has to keep on top of what the world-at-large uses in order to be a viable and current techie, I also take it upon myself to own a desktop PC (though I can just get by with a laptop but I do so because many others work with desktop PCs), a MacBook Pro, an Android tablet, and an iPad Mini. I otherwise wouldn't normally choose to use a Mac nor an iPad. And, as to operating systems, I much prefer Windows over Mac OS X and over Linux or any other Unix variant (e.g, BSD Unix). Yet I take it upon myself to have these other hardware platforms and operating system platforms at my avail SOLELY because I may or will be called upon as a techie to be familiar with using them (or at least at times) and may, at times, produce authored works which deal with varied hardware platforms, OS platforms, software packages, et al. In summary: If not for my need as a professional techie to keep current and informed regarding what everyone ELSE uses, life would be much much simpler (and less costly) for me as far as what I personally own and use.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsAll
Why oh why oh why would they put themselves at such a great disadvantage with this one and only life they have to live
Because we feel safer on older OS's... Before things got so intrusive!!!

I do not trust anything higher than Win2000 SP3 (With the SP4 update Microsoft started locking the OS down,taking things away from the end user,making it not as user friendly,etc....)



I love Win98se with a passion.... I know FOR SURE the only ones spying on me is my ISP and thats the way it should be!!


THIS IS MY COMPUTER........ Its not Facebooks,googles or even Microsofts to spy and collect data on me!!
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