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Old 02-10-2018, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,296 posts, read 3,489,851 times
Reputation: 3012

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
My electric dryer uses a lot of electricity, my electric company charges me for it. There was nothing preventing an ISP from doing the same thing under NN.
This is NOT the concern about loosing Net Neutrality.
To pay for what you consume, is fair.

However, what can be delivered to you is LIMITED by the wires out in the street.

Example:
BUT: If your neighbor decides to open an on-line business, and wants to use all the bandwidth that your local wiring can handle, and is willing to pay for it.
Because their check is larger than yours, your Internet provider is now allowed (and motivated) to throttle you slower in order to allow your neighbor have more.

You are both still paying the same rates for what you consume, but you are restricted from consuming the amount you want.

One example of how this hurts you, specifically, and also your entire community:
The loss of Net Neutrality will effect local libraries and schools that depend on high-capacity Internet for their services and educational tools. (That also are keeping your property taxes from being way way higher if you'd have to pay for those tools locally).

See also, (and remember that Consumers Reports / Consumers Union do NOT accept money from advertisers or anyone else - and therefore are highly credible).

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...lace/index.htm
https://consumersunion.org/news/cons...for-consumers/
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:36 PM
 
40,218 posts, read 41,815,454 times
Reputation: 16767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_RDNC View Post
This is NOT the concern about loosing Net Neutrality.
To pay for what you consume, is fair.

However, what can be delivered to you is LIMITED by the wires out in the street.
You missed the point ED, one of the common talking points is that services like Netflix and Youtube are utilizing a lot of bandwidth and they should pay the ISP for that. Netflix and Youtube are not the customers of the ISP. The consumer who is utilizing those services should be charged by the ISP for that, e.g. when I use my electric dryer the electric company charges me more. They don't charge Maytag.

Without NN Netflix and youtube can pay the ISP but this presents a huge problem because the little guy can now get squeezed.


Quote:
You are both still paying the same rates for what you consume, but you are restricted from consuming the amount you want.
While I have not heard this angle before Ed it seems improbable because there is no benefit to the ISP to allow one customer to suck up all the bandwidth if they are paying the same rate. The only way that would make sense is they had a financial interest.

Furthermore under NN there was nothing preventing an ISP from offering tiered service. NN only dictated that whatever service you were paying for whether it be 1Mbps or 100Mbps it would give you equal access to the sites and services you wanted to use.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:49 PM
 
588 posts, read 152,028 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman
My electric dryer uses a lot of electricity, my electric company charges me for it. There was nothing preventing an ISP from doing the same thing under NN.
No I suppose not........


Maybe they think suspicious activities are going on??
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:17 PM
 
40,218 posts, read 41,815,454 times
Reputation: 16767
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy221 View Post
No I suppose not........


Maybe they think suspicious activities are going on??
Perhaps I just murdered someone and I'm using my dryer to dry the clothes I was wearing after murdering them. While peer to peer services predominantly are used to trade copyrighted material they have legitimate uses.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:29 PM
 
588 posts, read 152,028 times
Reputation: 342
Hehe yes they do!! (Seems they dont realise it perhaps)
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:37 PM
 
1,290 posts, read 450,762 times
Reputation: 2542
Quote:
I just tried to find some free mp3 music. One minute after clicking into the first result, I lost my Internet data. This can't be coincidence.





Ah, another fellow Commielink DSL user. I feel your pain.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,724 posts, read 29,321,260 times
Reputation: 12539
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Before the formalization of those rules that is how it operated forever for the most part. There was many FCC actions against the ISP's going back years for when they broke the NN principle. For example there was an ISP that was blocking service to the VOIP service from Vonage service.
Wasn't the NN in effect in 2015? How can it be any FCC rule against the ISP for breaking a rule that didn't exist prior to 2015? Not arguing with you, i just don't understand what you are referring to.

Quote:
Verizon won a court case against the FCC shortly befor internet services were classified as common carrier. That ruling stated that Verizon could not be regulated under the NN rules because they were not a common carrier. With the Obama administration reclassifying them as common carrier the FCC's ability to enforce NN was reinstated.

By removal of this classification under Trump it effectively lifts all enforcement that has been carried out over the last 20+ years. The potential for change to the internet service you have been accustomed to for the past 20+ is very real.
Those are just assumptions, like predicting what will happen in the future.

Quote:
As far as the OP question go. Could you ISP do this now? Certainly. Did they? Wjo knows.

This is going to open a can of worms, is my VOIP service slow because of my home network? Is it Ooma's servers that are slow? Or is my ISP throttling the traffic?
Exactly. Maybe the ISP did it, but maybe not. That does not mean however, that NN has anything to do with it. Also, as he said, it did not happen to his phone, just his computer.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:17 AM
 
40,218 posts, read 41,815,454 times
Reputation: 16767
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Wasn't the NN in effect in 2015? How can it be any FCC rule against the ISP for breaking a rule that didn't exist prior to 2015? Not arguing with you, i just don't understand what you are referring to.
ISP's have voluntarily or been pushed to adhere to the NN principle since internet has been existence, this concept predates the internet itself. Enforcement actions by the FCC were not necessarily court actions but "agreements". The point you are making is the exact same thing Verizon successfully argued hence the reason the rules were formalized and they were categorized as common carrier.


Quote:
Those are just assumptions, like predicting what will happen in the future.
Ray here is a few examples of where the NN principle was broken in the past when they were not supposed to be doing them:
Quote:
MADISON RIVER: In 2005, North Carolina ISP Madison River Communications blocked the voice-over-internet protocol (VOIP) service Vonage. Vonage filed a complaint with the FCC after receiving a slew of customer complaints. The FCC stepped in to sanction Madison River and prevent further blocking, but it lacks the authority to stop this kind of abuse today.

AT&T: From 2007–2009, AT&T forced Apple to block Skype and other competing VOIP phone services on the iPhone. The wireless provider wanted to prevent iPhone users from using any application that would allow them to make calls on such “over-the-top” voice services. The Google Voice app received similar treatment from carriers like AT&T when it came on the scene in 2009.

AT&T, SPRINT and VERIZON: From 2011–2013, AT&T, Sprint and Verizon blocked Google Wallet, a mobile-payment system that competed with a similar service called Isis, which all three companies had a stake in developing.
The FCC has no power to prevent them from doing this now. These services among the many other content/services available to you are enormous revenue streams and any expectation that the ISP is not going to leverage it's control between your house and the pole outside is being naive.


Quote:
Exactly. Maybe the ISP did it, but maybe not. That does not mean however, that NN has anything to do with it. Also, as he said, it did not happen to his phone, just his computer.
If the ISP did it then it has everything to do with NN because that is not possible under NN. Your ISP now has the ability to slow or block traffic to any site or service they want to.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,724 posts, read 29,321,260 times
Reputation: 12539
The market should dictate the king of ISP and cellphone service you want. I haven't had a single problem with my ISP, and I imagine the same can be said for most consumers. If I have a problem that can't be resolved with my ISP, then I choose another ISP. It's as simple as that. For example, where I live at the number of ISPs is limited, but I still have the following options:

a. A service that is from slow to fast, but unlimited. The fast-speed service costs the same as "b" (below), but is unlimited, while the slow speed-service is quite cheap.

b. The fastest-speed service in town, cheaper than "a," but limited.

Years ago I opted "a" above because it's plenty fast for watching movies (Netflix and the rest). I have never had any trouble whatsoever with this ISP.

My cell service choices with any provider depends on what I want. In here my choices are unlimited text and voice, and the smallest amount of data possible, simply because I don't use the data (maybe a few seconds at a time per month, when I want to use an app for checking the positions of the stars and things like that). Another person may want to have unlimited data, but all amounts to consumer choices.

The problem the OP had with his ISP has nothing to do with NN since it dis not happen to his phone and other devices at home, just his computer.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:54 PM
 
40,218 posts, read 41,815,454 times
Reputation: 16767
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
The market should dictate the king of ISP and cellphone service you want. I haven't had a single problem with my ISP, and I imagine the same can be said for most consumers. If I have a problem that can't be resolved with my ISP, then I choose another ISP. It's as simple as that.
Ray if that were the case for everyone I'd be on the other side of this but it's not the case. there is people that have no access at all and 50 million homes have access to only one provider that offer 25Mbps or faster. Most of those people are going to live in low density areas where they have the option of cable or slow ass DSL, DSL has very limited spped and will not be adequate going forward. Two competing broadband services are going to cut each others throats because of infrastructure costs so it's unlikely most of them will ever see competitors any time soon.
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