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Old 02-12-2018, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,723 posts, read 29,314,884 times
Reputation: 12539

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Ray if that were the case for everyone I'd be on the other side of this but it's not the case. there is people that have no access at all and 50 million homes have access to only one provider that offer 25Mbps or faster. Most of those people are going to live in low density areas where they have the option of cable or slow ass DSL, DSL has very limited spped and will not be adequate going forward. Two competing broadband services are going to cut each others throats because of infrastructure costs so it's unlikely most of them will ever see competitors any time soon.
To what kind of access are you referring to? The lack of Internet service in some places versus service already available nearby?

You are wrong about DSL. The whole thing depends on the cabling hubs and the rest. While DSL modems may be slower than cable modems, they are plenty fast depending on what type of speed you want. For example, my ISP Internet speed plan is not the fastest (10-16Mb/s) since I don't need more than 10Mb/s to watch Netflix movies, but it is unlimited. Another ISP uses cable modems, and has very fast Internet speeds, but the service is limited.
https://www.lifewire.com/speed-of-ds...service-817523

There is no way I am going to agree with the idea that local and Federal governments should dictate for the private sector to provide equal access to all, unless the ISP is the government itself, in which case all tax payers would be paying for it. But a private company, regardless of size can't spend in infrastructure more than what it makes from providing the service, unless its shareholders want to live in Chapter 11. Again, it should be up to the consumer to decide what service he or she wants, and to pay for it. You are just assuming all kinds of stuff that hasn't nor will take place, much like predicting the weather months ahead of time. There is no need to fix the Internet; it's not broken.

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-12-2018 at 11:32 PM..
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:12 AM
 
40,197 posts, read 41,799,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post

There is no way I am going to agree with the idea that local and Federal governments should dictate for the private sector to provide equal access to all,
NN does not have anything to do with providing equal access to all, it has to do with providing equal access to the sites and services you want to use based on the service you are paying the ISP for.

If the ISP was a water company under NN they can charge you by the volume, they could charge you based on the pressure or they could charge you based on a combination of the two. They can also offer you as many different plans as they want for different rates and volumes. They could even charge you different rates at different times of the day and alter your connection speed if they wanted.

Under NN there is no limitations on what the ISP can charge you for the service with one exception.... They could not for example charge you more because you were using a Maytag washer instead of their own preferred model, nor could they lower the water pressure/volume specifically for the Maytag washer and they cannot accept money from Maytag to increase the pressure over other models.

Last edited by thecoalman; 02-13-2018 at 07:26 AM..
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,723 posts, read 29,314,884 times
Reputation: 12539
the coalman,

This thread will probably end-up in the political forum. While I am not a Republican nor a Democrat-more of a conservative libertarian-for years and years the Democrats have wanted to turn both the Internet and Radio in the same direction (neutrality). That alone is enough reason for me not to like it, regardless of which political party it comes from. I would feel exactly the same way if it were the Republicans doing the same.

The way I see it, the Internet has been on a steady rate of growth since the '90s, and continues doing well. Government intervention is not going to make it better, simply because it is not broken. My final say on this matter is that, if it's not broken there is no need to fix it. You are assuming that the "Internet sky will fall," and that's all.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:30 AM
 
40,197 posts, read 41,799,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
the coalman,

This thread will probably end-up in the political forum. While I am not a Republican nor a Democrat-more of a conservative libertarian-for years and years the Democrats have wanted to turn both the Internet and Radio in the same direction (neutrality).
My political views are typically Conservative but this is one thing the Obama administration got right. While the "Fairness Doctrine" is an abomination it in no way has any comparison to NN, if anything it's the exact opposite. In this context the the term "neutral" is referring to 1's and 0's, the order or source of those 1's and 0's is not a consideration.

NN insured that whether you were using Fox News, MSNBC, Breitbart, Huffpo, Stormfront, ANTIFA site, downloading a MS update, downloading Linux, downloading a game, downloading an MP3, using a VOIP service, emailing, watching a video on Youtube or any other activity on the internet that that ISP would give you equal access to those services without any interference or discrimination.

Quote:
The way I see it, the Internet has been on a steady rate of growth since the '90s, and continues doing well.
It has and that growth and innovation has come under an internet that has operated under the NN principle. That along with open standards is what has driven the tremendous amount of things that have evolved. It has insured that anyone in this country with an idea has access to anyone with an internet connection. Their only limitations is how much they wanted to invest for the server and the bandwidth on their end. As it stands now the service they want to provide to those consumers can be strangled between the house and the pole outside.

Quote:
if it's not broken there is no need to fix it.
Then you support keeping Net Neutrality,
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,723 posts, read 29,314,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Then you support keeping Net Neutrality,
Me bad

I thought that NN was abolished recently. It means that I don't support it, nor ever will. To a lot of Americans government is always the solution; not for me.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:08 PM
 
7,249 posts, read 5,705,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Me bad

I thought that NN was abolished recently. It means that I don't support it, nor ever will. To a lot of Americans government is always the solution; not for me.
The rule change is not in effect yet.

We're entering a whole new world. Get ready to be throttled and price gouged. But at least you can cling to your "government is always bad" position. That should bring you comfort when your ISP reduces your Netflix quality to 480i.

When you do a complete 180 on everything you claimed to believe less than a day ago just because "OMG Government!!!" then maybe you should consider whether your political positions match up with what you actually want.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:05 PM
 
Location: DFW
6,816 posts, read 12,022,930 times
Reputation: 5208
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhbj03 View Post
I just tried to find some free mp3 music. One minute after clicking into the first result, I lost my Internet data. This can't be coincidence.

But only the computer I was using was affected, my phone which is using same WiFi still works.
I had that happen with an ISP i used a decade ago whenever I accessed ThePirateBay with the DSL modem they supplied.. when I used another modem I bought myself, it worked fine. Nowadays, I always use a VPN when accessing questionable sites.. and with Net Neutrality repealed, it's even more important to use one if you suspect the site you're accessing is being blocked or throttled..

One flaw though.. your ISP can theoretically block access to the VPN so this isn't foolproof either.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,723 posts, read 29,314,884 times
Reputation: 12539
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
The rule change is not in effect yet.

We're entering a whole new world. Get ready to be throttled and price gouged. But at least you can cling to your "government is always bad" position. That should bring you comfort when your ISP reduces your Netflix quality to 480i.

When you do a complete 180 on everything you claimed to believe less than a day ago just because "OMG Government!!!" then maybe you should consider whether your political positions match up with what you actually want.
I didn't have any trouble with the Internet before 2015, so I imagine that it will be the same in the future.
Where did you get the idea that I implied that government is always a bad position? All I implied is as follows: a lot of Americans depend on government (s) for making any decision imaginable. In relation to the Internet, I pay for the service I want. I am the consumer. If I don't like what my ISP does, then I choose another ISP. It's as simple as that.

You are just predicting that the sky will fall. If it ever happens, then I will figure how to cross that bridge, but for the time being I continue using the Internet as I aways have. If the Internet sky falls, I don't care. There are a lot of other things I can do besides sitting in front of a TV or computer.

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-14-2018 at 10:48 PM..
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:05 AM
 
9,569 posts, read 12,509,841 times
Reputation: 15027
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
I didn't have any trouble with the Internet before 2015, so I imagine that it will be the same in the future.
The issue of Net Neutrality was just a portion of the marketing of repealing FCC rules. Net Neutrality isn't its own stand alone regulation, it's part of regulations that included consumer protections. It was the reclassification of the service from telecommunications service to information service that enabled the end of Net Neutrality. I know many who favored the removal of federal regulations as a necessary cumbersome regulation. However, they have now changed that stance once they realized exactly what the change means
beyond just the single issue of Net Neutrality.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:15 AM
 
2,712 posts, read 3,002,511 times
Reputation: 1229
Is this connected? This morning, when I tried to open my Firefox browser, I had a large page from Spectrum telling me to acceot and agree to their terms. It said if I click Continue, I accept their terms about privacy policy. Note those last two words. Important because I telephoned and asked what that was. She said 'oh, that's just an agreement not to do anything illegal, anything you are not supposed to do on a computer. That reply seems to contradict the "privacy policy" statement.

I was then told to click Continue to read more. With her on the phone, I clicked Continue, but I got nothing more. I was simply back on my browser.

Of course, I do not know what I'll find when I shut down soon and then re-boot later this morning.

Does all this seem to relate to what others here are experiencing? Thank you.
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