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Old 04-11-2018, 05:50 AM
 
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I am so disgusted as well as a whole lot of other people, with corporations, who "think" and believe they are saving money, by rolling out new computer software programs, without discussing anything with the end users.

It is absolutely irresponsible, absurd, and without a shadow of a doubt, arrogant, on the part of the Corporations in the U.S.

Can't tell you how many times, our corporation, has rolled out new software, which is always less user friendly than the last.

I've worked for this company now, for 24 years, and it never ceases to amaze me, how unintelligent for both the Company and the end users of that software.

Some cutbacks offer nothing but problems, and in the end, cost more money and time, than if you'd spend more money, discuss the needs of the end users, as well as monthly meetings after the roll out with the end users to clean up any glitches.

I saw how effectively and efficiently our company worked, when they discussed new software designs with the end users. Not only that, but they would then, have meetings once a month, with the users to report repeated problems and glitches.

They don't do that any longer and it is really a loss of money. Companies now, roll out programs that do not function nearly as efficently as the ones that were there prior to the last roll out.

Also, you are not saving any money by hiring IS support in India or other countries. Why? Because they don't know anything, and it's a waste of time, and money, to do so....

1. First there is always a communication barrier.
2. They are simply reading how to trouble shoot a problem from a manual...and it takes hours, sometimes days to fix the problem.
3. when you call them, it takes them a while to understand what the problem is, and you have to keep explaining over and over again...and all you want to do is smack yourself in the head.

We used to have IT people who worked for the company, that were not only brilliant at trouble shooting, but also, quick at solving the problem, without even viewing my screen.


When companies in the U.S. stop worrying so much about money, and the shareholders and start realizing the time spent on these two subjects, is certainly a huge waste of money and non-productive, your employees will be able to be much more effective and resourceful in saving you money by its capabilities to render their jobs and accomplish timelines much faster, not to mention, putting jobs back on the U.S. market. Stop hiring foreign employees who do not know what they are doing, and can hardly be understood. You’re not saving any money in the long run.


sometimes you've got to spend money to make money!!!

I just cannot believe it's taking The CEO's of Corporations to figure this out....people need to work together as a TEAM and discuss these issues....

Last edited by cremebrulee; 04-11-2018 at 06:02 AM..
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:01 AM
 
7,147 posts, read 3,907,949 times
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I don’t disagree with your rant, but with respect to polling end users are you saying your company consults with nobody?

If it’s software rolled out everywhere and a large firm they may discuss with end users, just not you. Decisions by committee don’t really work well either.

If it’s departmental software and the people in the department aren’t consulted that’s just silly.

Many times software is switched due to purely financial reasons, or due to a bad vendor relationship. Something the rank and file wouldn’t know about.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:07 AM
 
26,405 posts, read 24,986,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
I don’t disagree with your rant, but with respect to polling end users are you saying your company consults with nobody?

If it’s software rolled out everywhere and a large firm they may discuss with end users, just not you. Decisions by committee don’t really work well either.

If it’s departmental software and the people in the department aren’t consulted that’s just silly.

Many times software is switched due to purely financial reasons, or due to a bad vendor relationship. Something the rank and file wouldn’t know about.
Well, thank you, but I have no idea who they are consulting with, as everyone is saying it, each software program they roll out for a specific job or function, is Always worse than the one we had before. Not nearly as user friendly and causes the employees to waste more time in completing their jobs...than it would if the company has talks with the end users to find out exactly what the needs are to be productive and time effective.

And if our company is doing it, certainly others are as well....I believe something has been lost with the newer generation that has taken over, and decisions are made more so with saving money, but not when it takes your employees a longer go around, and that goes for IT support as well.

I think companies have forgotten one very important detail...to get the end users together in a meeting and discuss their needs and how the program could be more time effective. And that also goes for IT support.

My gosh, I remember a nice gentleman I used to get when I called IT support years ago, he could trouble shoot a computer problem I was having in record time, and in those days we didn't have privy of net meetings, so he could see my screen. I would explain the problem to him, and BOOM...problem solved.

You couldn't get away with that today...due to the communication problems that exist...I cannot tell you how frustrating it is....

Oh and Mark, this isn't a rant, I'm really hoping that Board members and people who create software see this, b/c what is happening now, is arrogant, and a huge loss of time and money.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:13 AM
 
Location: HoCo, MD
4,592 posts, read 8,197,396 times
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What you are describing isn't an IT problem. It's a business problem. And that is the crux of it. Having worked in IT for over 20 years (from leading a helpdesk team to being a senior executive today), for some reason, people have this notion that IT departments are magical wizards that will always know exactly what the business needs and can tailor any solution they buy (without first consulting with IT) to their wishes.

People don't expect accounting/finance to magically make their budget meet their need or expect marketing to magically create campaigns for a new product. Yet, they seems to do exactly that with IT. I understand for many, IT is still very foreign to them. But that doesn't excuse them for having to establish requirements/processes. If I had a dime for every time someone said to me "yea, I'm not very technical, so I need you to handle it for me", I wouldn't need to handle it for them anymore.

IT implementations often fail because the business made IT accountable for it, rather than the business unit that is going to use it.

That said - from a support perspective. There are also two sides to that. Systems, etc. are much more complicated these days compared to the past. Also - again, IT is often expected to understand solutions without ever been exposed to it. Not specifically saying you do this. But people often go out and buy and piece of software. Have issue with it, then call IT and expect them to know everything about it and fix it. But to your point - businesses often look at the balance sheets. But forget that there are lots of costs that aren't reflected on them (efficiency, culture, morale, etc.).
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:33 AM
 
26,405 posts, read 24,986,510 times
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Quote:
macroy What you are describing isn't an IT problem. It's a business problem. And that is the crux of it. Having worked in IT for over 20 years (from leading a helpdesk team to being a senior executive today), for some reason, people have this notion that IT departments are magical wizards that will always know exactly what the business needs and can tailor any solution they buy (without first consulting with IT) to their wishes.
Your absolutely right, thank you for correcting me, it is indeed a business problem!

but I was also describing the problems with IT we've been having as well....so sorry for the confusion.


Quote:
People don't expect accounting/finance to magically make their budget meet their need or expect marketing to magically create campaigns for a new product. Yet, they seems to do exactly that with IT. I understand for many, IT is still very foreign to them. But that doesn't excuse them for having to establish requirements/processes. If I had a dime for every time someone said to me "yea, I'm not very technical, so I need you to handle it for me", I wouldn't need to handle it for them anymore.
In lieu of this paragraph, what my company used to do, years ago, was, in fact, put together a team of IS engineers, to organize a meeting between them and the end users to find out their needs, and what it was that would balance out a user friendly and efficient software. Then after rolling it out, they chose several of the end users to organize a small team that everyone could report different problems and glitches to, that they could in turn, take to the monthly meetings to work out the problems. Makes sense, right?

Quote:
IT implementations often fail because the business made IT accountable for it, rather than the business unit that is going to use it.
My view on this is different, IT often fails b/c the Business or people in charge, make decisions for the end users, and they have never before been the end user.


Quote:
That said - from a support perspective. There are also two sides to that. Systems, etc. are much more complicated these days compared to the past.
I cannot comment on this except to say...that our IT support people most certainly do not know how to work out the problems we call them with, and we know that, b/c of the support people we've had before, on the very same issue....and I have literally had to spend an entire 4 hours on the phone, with someone from another country, who knows nothing about our specific procedures, to help. You want to pull your hair out!

Quote:
Also - again, IT is often expected to understand solutions without ever been exposed to it. Not specifically saying you do this. But people often go out and buy and piece of software. Have issue with it, then call IT and expect them to know everything about it and fix it. But to your point - businesses often look at the balance sheets. But forget that there are lots of costs that aren't reflected on them (efficiency, culture, morale, etc.).
If in fact, the IT people were never exposed to it, than why are they even claiming to be an IT specialist...that doesn't make sense....and that in our case is a given, we know they've never been exposed to our computer problems, it's very evident, not only do we experience a great horrible communication problem, that takes you maybe 3 times to explain to them, but also, they then have to put us on hold, and read how to trouble shoot the problem from a manual. So the businesses are hiring cheaper labor, to trouble shoot something they don't know about.

That is an awful thing to do to your employees...especially corporate people who are already putting in 3 to 6 hours over time a day, their time is important...and this issue, certainly is far from time efficient, let alone they may have to call back several times to fix their computer problem. Do you see?

Businesses need to start talking to their employees, to find out what the specific needs are, before implementing a software program.
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
18,540 posts, read 55,461,975 times
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I had to laugh in recognition, and noted how nothing changes is head office attitudes. In a way, it can be a good thing, as it leaves space for start-ups that recognize the issues and begin a company that doesn't make those mistakes (at least for a while).

Personally, I think there are a few core causes of such problems:

1. What I call the "Bright Shiny Object" syndrome. If there is new technology, better graphics, and a slick presentation most corporate heads will fall for it. You could coat horse manure with LEDs and glitter and get oohs and ahhs from some of them.

2. Hidden kickbacks. "Hey Mr. CEO, if you buy our product we will supply you with a new car so that you can go to your locations on the way to the pre-paid sales presentation at DISNEYLAND!!! With FREE passes for all your family if you want to bring them."

3. Fear of falling behind. Very similar to "Keep up with the Joneses" if a visit to a competitor shows that they have a virtual reality toilet, then by gahd we better get one too.

4. Beancounters. Beancounters are fine in their place, but once stockholders enter the picture, the hall to their door suddenly becomes encrusted with gold panels giving the wisdom of the accountant. Any saving that can fit into a spreadsheet line is operational capital - even if there is a hidden cost that is treble the savings.

5. Complete lack of understanding of operational issues. Five vice-presidents giving conflicting memos demanding reports waste time and are more about politics than the company.

The classic example I give is the old General Cinema, that had directives that - if followed - made it impossible to do the job. Reports had to be filled out by hand, and then AFTER they were complete and correct, entered into a poorly designed hand-held "aides" system that had some processing ability, but mostly interfaced with the mainframe in Boston. It became obvious to me pretty quickly that this was a company on its way to bankruptcy. I was right.

Don't get me started on "upgrades." IME, most upgrades are a net loss. Retraining, finding the hidden functions (now squirreled away in the interest of a vague "security" concern, bloat, and poorly considered templating make people want to walk out.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:19 PM
 
7,147 posts, read 3,907,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post

2. Hidden kickbacks. "Hey Mr. CEO, if you buy our product we will supply you with a new car so that you can go to your locations on the way to the pre-paid sales presentation at DISNEYLAND!!! With FREE passes for all your family if you want to bring them."
This one is becoming much less of an issue, at least at most public companies. Mandatory ethics training and internal governance combined with strict penalties make people think twice before they risk their jobs.

In my past couple of companies there were strict gift rules, both for giving and receiving.


caveat....at least in the US. Other countries may have different practices.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:22 PM
 
7,147 posts, read 3,907,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macroy View Post

IT implementations often fail because the business made IT accountable for it, rather than the business unit that is going to use it.
Bingo. And often once the crisis passes/ink is dry/new fiscal year comes there is also no top cover from exec mgt to get it pushed through successfully.

I’ve been involved with $100K projects that have failed, as well as $200M projects that were successful. Bigger ones either fail miserably or all hands are on deck to ensure it succeeds given the financial visibility.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:39 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
4,884 posts, read 2,501,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
Well, thank you, but I have no idea who they are consulting with, as everyone is saying it, each software program they roll out for a specific job or function, is Always worse than the one we had before. Not nearly as user friendly and causes the employees to waste more time in completing their jobs
...
could it be that users are simply more accustomed to the old way of doing things. in my xperience, ueers would complain of new programs/processes even if they are better/faster.

any change requires work to learn.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:00 AM
 
26,405 posts, read 24,986,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
could it be that users are simply more accustomed to the old way of doing things. in my xperience, ueers would complain of new programs/processes even if they are better/faster.

any change requires work to learn.
no not really, it's not about the old way...I'm all for new programs, and so are a lot of other co-workers, but, again, I've been experienced with both ways of doing things...

Tell me, how can any software company invent something user friendly and much more accurate, if it works....however, some of the new software they've rolled out, not only has tons of quirks, but the IT people are so arrogant, they don't want to admit there are problems, and the new programs never seem to be as good as the last....so in my company, we have yet to see the better, faster programs.

Not to mention, our IT support in other countries....they are really really bad.
You cannot understand them, they are reading how to trouble shoot from a manual, which takes much longer, and when they know all there is to know, they move on...and the IT company has to hire newer inexperienced people.

They just changed our IT support for a program we have. The old IT people were excellent, you'd call them up and breeze thru the problem.

The new IT people didn't even know how to do certain things...not to mention, wasting and I kid you not, 4 hours on the phone trying to accomplish one person who knew what they were doing?

Horrible way to do business.
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