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Old 07-22-2019, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
16,548 posts, read 19,698,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawberrySoup View Post
I thought of that while typing but don't know if that's true. What's the data rate needed between cars?
Totally true and one of the big factors driving 5G adoption. No question.

https://www.salon.com/2019/03/28/how...ities_partner/

https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/201...ected-vehicles

https://www.electronicproducts.com/A...s_driving.aspx

https://venturebeat.com/2019/07/05/w...onnected-cars/
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:13 PM
 
732 posts, read 390,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Totally true and one of the big factors driving 5G adoption. No question.
That's interesting. It makes more sense the more you tend towards non-autonomous self-driving cars. Where does the intelligence really end up. For now there's certainly no point given that the infrastructure isn't there (and self-driving cars will be rare).

If you have any documents on the architecture of inter-car communications and potential centralizing of the whole she-bang I'll read them.
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,455 posts, read 2,497,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawberrySoup View Post
I thought of that while typing but don't know if that's true. What's the data rate needed between cars?

Also, I would think that higher frequency signals require shorter distances and cleaner line of sight, not so good for communications between things that are moving at a high speed. I suppose you could put up a stationary antenna every 1000 feet or so on all roads.

I just never seem to hear convincing use cases for higher speed communications for consumers once you are able to reliably send two way video of sufficient quality. No doubt they exist, but perhaps not enough to justify the extreme expense of a wholesale change in infrastructure.

It's not just data rate. It's the emerging protocols that will enable Vehicle-to-Vehicle (V2V) and Vehicle-to-Infrastructure (V2I) communication and much lower latencies to support the required determinism of autonomous vehicles. You need to examine the relationship between carrier frequency and atmospheric adsorption, output power, antenna gain, antenna radiating pattern and a whole load of other physical characteristics to form a model of the required distances. Just saying higher frequencies = shorted distances is not a complete statement.



Also, think outside of video streaming. IOT, emergency services Peer-to-peer communications, V2V, V2I and replacing current back-haul fixed optical, copper and point to point microwave links as just a few examples of where 5G will be applicable. It's going to be big!
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Old 07-24-2019, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,455 posts, read 2,497,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawberrySoup View Post
That's interesting. It makes more sense the more you tend towards non-autonomous self-driving cars. Where does the intelligence really end up. For now there's certainly no point given that the infrastructure isn't there (and self-driving cars will be rare).

If you have any documents on the architecture of inter-car communications and potential centralizing of the whole she-bang I'll read them.

You have to think what our requirements as a society will be in 10, 20 and 50 years time. Looking at a static model of what we have today and saying "that's good enough" is why countries lose their leadership. I'm also struggling to determine what a non-autonomous self driving car is. If you mean cooperative self driving cars then yes, that is a thing, and in 50 years time the kids of tomorrow will laugh at those dinosaurs who used to drive their own cars, and what a bad job they did....
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Old 07-24-2019, 06:44 PM
 
325 posts, read 163,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
The big thing that has people excited about 5G... well companies maybe not actual people, are connected cars. If we are ever going to have driverless cars driving us around they need to be able to communicate with streets and other cars very quickly.


5G on a cellphone is just not all that amazing.
and there's alot of varables that go along with that to. like line of sight how close you are to the tower wich is most of the time 200-300 feet to get them blazing speeds!!! 5G on my cell phone is amazing because i can download 20 hrs of full fledged 4k uhd video in 4 minutes and not hours LOL. now the home modem and router is where it's at right now!!! since that's blazing fast then again i have a server right out in front of my window so i will get them insane speeds. it's sick latency is never been 1 millisecond and i have been hitting 17-18 gigs down. to be honest i don't think alot of people will benefit from the full potential of 5G i know people that are further away from the towers and they can't even hit a gig!!!
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:29 AM
 
732 posts, read 390,784 times
Reputation: 1107
Quote:
Originally Posted by timfountain View Post
You have to think what our requirements as a society will be in 10, 20 and 50 years time. Looking at a static model of what we have today and saying "that's good enough" is why countries lose their leadership. I'm also struggling to determine what a non-autonomous self driving car is. If you mean cooperative self driving cars then yes, that is a thing, and in 50 years time the kids of tomorrow will laugh at those dinosaurs who used to drive their own cars, and what a bad job they did....
By 'non-autonomous self-driving' (contradictory sounding I admit), I mean moving the intelligence outside of the vehicle. Cooperation could mean a lot of things, from a simple 'here I am with this speed,direction, and location' to directly running the throttle/steering/brake via a shared computational resource...or anything in between.

I have no clue how this is going to play out as wholesale changes in design usually requires a very strong pay-off. Having designed largish hard real-time systems, I can appreciate the problems once everybody digs in and starts uncovering the real issues.
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