U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology > Computers
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Mac OS X vs Windows - Who survives the test of time?
Some version of OS X 33 38.37%
Some version of Windows 35 40.70%
Neither one 6 6.98%
Both 12 13.95%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-20-2008, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,070 posts, read 9,078,495 times
Reputation: 1632

Advertisements

"The Intel-JaJah combination will enable you to dump your landline phone and use a PC-based VoIP phone without leaving your PC on all the time."

I wonder if a person would be able to use a mobile phone or cell with bluetooth which get's its signal from the PC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-20-2008, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Detroit Downriver
620 posts, read 1,884,330 times
Reputation: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson View Post
"The Intel-JaJah combination will enable you to dump your landline phone and use a PC-based VoIP phone without leaving your PC on all the time."

I wonder if a person would be able to use a mobile phone or cell with bluetooth which get's its signal from the PC.
Some mobile phones are able to connect through WiFi hotspots like Starbucks. The iPhone is one. If you have WiFi enabled, it might work through the PC with that set up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2008, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Detroit Downriver
620 posts, read 1,884,330 times
Reputation: 403
Wink Macs in Corporate Networks

Please excuse me for waking up this old thread and poll. I just ran across this article in IndUS Business Journal Online that supports my position. - Bull

Barriers to Macintosh adoption are collapsing

By Vin D'Amico

Apple is finally making serious inroads into corporate networks. The Macintosh is no longer viewed as an arts and crafts project. Meanwhile, Microsoft is under increasing pressure to respond to the criticism that Windows Vista has endured.

Windows is growing old. Vista is a near disaster. Microsoft is getting beat up badly by Apple’s television advertising.

Switching computer platforms is never simple but this may be the right time to consider it.

<snip>

Barriers to Macintosh adoption are collapsing | Articles | IndUS Business Journal

Rebuttal provided by Steve Balmer


YouTube - Steve Ballmer
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2008, 10:56 AM
 
5,115 posts, read 4,722,255 times
Reputation: 4380
There's one big roadblock to massive deployment of Macintosh computers to the business world -- viruses. OK, two...viruses and worms...wait, three, viruses, worms, and spyware.

Yeah, I know that Macintosh's don't get viruses. That's because with only a 5% or 10% market penetration there's no one who wants to write viruses for such a small target "audience". Is there even any anti-virus software written for the Mac platform? Keep in mind why people write viruses now...bank account fraud, identity theft, or creation of zombie farms.

What happens if/when Mac gets a 40% or 50% market penetration? Will Apple be able to deal with what the PC software industry has been struggling with for 20+ years?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2008, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Detroit Downriver
620 posts, read 1,884,330 times
Reputation: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
There's one big roadblock to massive deployment of Macintosh computers to the business world -- viruses. OK, two...viruses and worms...wait, three, viruses, worms, and spyware.

Yeah, I know that Macintosh's don't get viruses. That's because with only a 5% or 10% market penetration there's no one who wants to write viruses for such a small target "audience". Is there even any anti-virus software written for the Mac platform? Keep in mind why people write viruses now...bank account fraud, identity theft, or creation of zombie farms.

What happens if/when Mac gets a 40% or 50% market penetration? Will Apple be able to deal with what the PC software industry has been struggling with for 20+ years?
Let me see if I got this straight. The Windows world has been struggling with viruses since the dawn of shell GUI over DOS while no other OS has yet to establish a reputation for virus suceptability. Worms and spyware, two other attack vectors unknown in the world of OS X, have been the bugaboo of Microsoft's 3rd rate OS since the dawn of the Internet. Yet, it is this strange phenomena that you consider to be the "... big roadblock to massive deployment of Macintosh computers to the business world ..."

By that reasoning, I guess it's reasonable to assume that the business world wants to keep dealing with all the viruses, worms and spyware and not participate in a world of safe computing. They would prefer to leave that business to the unwary consumers to which over 90% of Macintoshes are sold to. That, by not adopting the Macintosh platform, they are doing the rest of us a favor, supressing the overall popularity of safe computing for the good of mankind.

The line of reasoning you elucidated also presupposes that the lack of success with viruses on the Mac is due entirely to a lack of interest and has nothing to do with a lack of vulnerability.

Lack of interest? For the most part, sure. It's difficult to get a virus bloom to take on the Mac. Of course script kiddies don't want to play there. These bozos are not in it for the challenge. They're in it for the mischief.

Lack of vulnerability? Absolutely! If the Mac had the same vulnerability as Windows, then the amount of viruses on OS X would be comeasurant with market share, relative to Windows, and Macs would have ~6% virus load of Windows. But, they don't.

There are no viruses in circulation on OS X, while on Windows the numbers are in the thousands (and I'm being kind).

The virus world is already being filtered successfully from the Macintosh world. As market share increases, I would expect that to continue to be a constant. 6% market share times 0% penetration is equal to 12%, 24% or even 48% market share times the current level of penetration.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2008, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,500 posts, read 20,293,247 times
Reputation: 4233
Microsoft is winning because they have most of the enterprise systems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2008, 01:57 PM
 
5,115 posts, read 4,722,255 times
Reputation: 4380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull Winkus View Post
Let me see if I got this straight. The Windows world has been struggling with viruses since the dawn of shell GUI over DOS while no other OS has yet to establish a reputation for virus suceptability. Worms and spyware, two other attack vectors unknown in the world of OS X, have been the bugaboo of Microsoft's 3rd rate OS since the dawn of the Internet. Yet, it is this strange phenomena that you consider to be the "... big roadblock to massive deployment of Macintosh computers to the business world ..."

By that reasoning, I guess it's reasonable to assume that the business world wants to keep dealing with all the viruses, worms and spyware and not participate in a world of safe computing. They would prefer to leave that business to the unwary consumers to which over 90% of Macintoshes are sold to. That, by not adopting the Macintosh platform, they are doing the rest of us a favor, supressing the overall popularity of safe computing for the good of mankind.

The line of reasoning you elucidated also presupposes that the lack of success with viruses on the Mac is due entirely to a lack of interest and has nothing to do with a lack of vulnerability.

Lack of interest? For the most part, sure. It's difficult to get a virus bloom to take on the Mac. Of course script kiddies don't want to play there. These bozos are not in it for the challenge. They're in it for the mischief.

Lack of vulnerability? Absolutely! If the Mac had the same vulnerability as Windows, then the amount of viruses on OS X would be comeasurant with market share, relative to Windows, and Macs would have ~6% virus load of Windows. But, they don't.

There are no viruses in circulation on OS X, while on Windows the numbers are in the thousands (and I'm being kind).

The virus world is already being filtered successfully from the Macintosh world. As market share increases, I would expect that to continue to be a constant. 6% market share times 0% penetration is equal to 12%, 24% or even 48% market share times the current level of penetration.
Really? In your experience exactly what is it about Mac OS X that precludes viruses, worms, and spyware? I mean, there must be something about OS X that makes it INCOCEIVABLE that a Macintosh would ever contract a virus.

Symantec seems to think that there are Macintosh targeted viruses Mac Antivirus Software - Mac Virus Scan | Norton AntiVirus 11.0 for Macintosh .

So does MacAffee McAfee Virex for Macintosh - AntiVirus Protection for Macintosh (http://www.mcafee.com/us/enterprise/products/anti_virus/file_servers_desktops/virex.html - broken link).

But then, maybe these two companies are just taking advantage of ignorant Mac users. Which is of course why MacWorld posted this article to its web site Macworld | Select Your Shield (http://www.macworld.com/article/42903/2005/02/antivirussoftware.html - broken link).

Of course, we all know that Macintosh computers with OS X are unhackable, except for the time that one was hacked in under 30 minutes Mac OS X hacked under 30 minutes: News - Security - ZDNet Australia.

You think that script kiddies are the threat? Guess what, organized crime syndicates operating in countries beyond US prosecution are responsible for the most serious copmuter crimes being being committed today(The New Perpetrator: Organized Crime Replaces the Neighborhood Hacker Parker CO - Parker CO, The New Perpetrator: Organized Crime Replaces the Neighborhood Hacker).

Face this fact, Macintosh has less than an 8% market penetration overall (Market share for browsers, operating systems and search engines), probably less than that in the business world. Given that the cheapest PC can be bought for $400 (including keyboard, mouse, and monitor) and the cheapest Macintosh is $600 (w/o keyboard, mouse, or monitor), probably a lot less. If there's one thing managers of large corporations value more than anything else, it's minimizing expenses, whether on computer equipment or a health care plan for their 1000+ employees.

Bull Winkus, you completely missed my point. Macintoshes are just as vunerable to attack, if not more so, than any Microsoft OS. It's just that because of Apple's small market penetration it's not economical for the criminal element to attempt to hack them. If the business world did start replacing PCs with Macs then as soon as it became reasonably profitable the security flaws in OS X would be rapidly exploited.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2008, 02:20 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,279,055 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander
Not surprising to be honest. Actual programmers have been going the way of the dodo for many years now. Most are referred to as "coders" these days. Simply people who have learned the syntax to a language and can write simplistic routines and procedures. When it comes to actual design and structure, they are often clueless and lost.

Whats sad is most universities teach very poor practices in software development as well. Again, they are 90 day wonder courses teaching people the syntax and some very basics of software structure and function. Often most of the lower level programming theory is rushed over in order to get on to the high level languages creating software developers who can only think as far as the next tool set written for them by IDE developers.

In my opinoin, it is a product of a dwindling educational system. Fewer and fewer people were going into the sciences when I was in school, so they starting developing "lighter" programs that didn't require as much core knowledge of the subjects. It allowed more people to take the classes and actually pass, but all it produced was a bunch of people who appeared qualified, but in reality were far from it. /shrug
Very true. Many CS departments just say "this is Java... this is how you do it at a HIGH LEVEL" and don't emphasize that hardware has constraints. Many programmers aren't even required to learn an assembly language anymore... that tells you many don't know how the hardware is working at a low-level, logic-oriented manner or how software is being translated into hardware language. I'm a Computer Engineer, so I get a dose of how to design the hardware and implementing software. So, combining those two experiences, I know the importance of efficiency in coding scheme as well as constrains.

Last edited by ShadowCaver; 09-24-2008 at 03:17 PM.. Reason: added original poster to the quoted material
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2008, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Detroit Downriver
620 posts, read 1,884,330 times
Reputation: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Really? In your experience exactly what is it about Mac OS X that precludes viruses, worms, and spyware? I mean, there must be something about OS X that makes it INCOCEIVABLE that a Macintosh would ever contract a virus.
Past performance. But I don't think it's inconceivable that a Mac would ever contract a virus. It just hasn't happened yet, and let's face it. 8% market share is a lot of installations even given that prior years of selling were at considerably less market share. Immune? No. ... No publicly connected computer OS is immune to attack and the potential of a compromise. But, relative to Windows the contrast in vulnerability is irrefutable.

Quote:
Symantec seems to think that there are Macintosh targeted viruses Mac Antivirus Software - Mac Virus Scan | Norton AntiVirus 11.0 for Macintosh .

So does MacAffee McAfee Virex for Macintosh - AntiVirus Protection for Macintosh (http://www.mcafee.com/us/enterprise/products/anti_virus/file_servers_desktops/virex.html - broken link).

But then, maybe these two companies are just taking advantage of ignorant Mac users. Which is of course why MacWorld posted this article to its web site Macworld | Select Your Shield (http://www.macworld.com/article/42903/2005/02/antivirussoftware.html - broken link).
You may have something there. There's obviously a market for such software. Since there are no viruses in the wild on the Mac, it does seem foolish to waste money on them.

Quote:
Of course, we all know that Macintosh computers with OS X are unhackable, except for the time that one was hacked in under 30 minutes Mac OS X hacked under 30 minutes: News - Security - ZDNet Australia.
"Participants were given local client access to the target computer..." Need I say more? No attempt was made to protect the server. Look, any OS can be hacked with the right knowledge. Getting a virus to propagate in the wild is quite another matter.

Quote:
You think that script kiddies are the threat? Guess what, organized crime syndicates operating in countries beyond US prosecution are responsible for the most serious copmuter crimes being being committed today(The New Perpetrator: Organized Crime Replaces the Neighborhood Hacker Parker CO - Parker CO, The New Perpetrator: Organized Crime Replaces the Neighborhood Hacker).
Yes, I'm well aware of that. The way I see it. It's not the proportion of Mac market share that keeps these geniuses off the Mac. It's the disproportionately large availability of easily manipulated Windows machines. As long as there are huge pools of readily available zombie boxes, why would they go to the trouble of learning, writing new software, and overcoming obstacles for a new platform. Apple's Mac would have to get above 50% market penetration before any of them would get interested.

Quote:
Face this fact, Macintosh has less than an 8% market penetration overall (Market share for browsers, operating systems and search engines), probably less than that in the business world. Given that the cheapest PC can be bought for $400 (including keyboard, mouse, and monitor) and the cheapest Macintosh is $600 (w/o keyboard, mouse, or monitor), probably a lot less. If there's one thing managers of large corporations value more than anything else, it's minimizing expenses, whether on computer equipment or a health care plan for their 1000+ employees.
I think I've already laid out my position on this much earlier in the thread.

Quote:
Bull Winkus, you completely missed my point. Macintoshes are just as vunerable to attack, if not more so, than any Microsoft OS. It's just that because of Apple's small market penetration it's not economical for the criminal element to attempt to hack them. If the business world did start replacing PCs with Macs then as soon as it became reasonably profitable the security flaws in OS X would be rapidly exploited.
I didn't miss your point, convoluted as it was, I just disagree with it to a certain extent. Where you say, "just as vulnerable to attack," I'd say not as vulnerable to attack. The status quo is my evidence. Your evidence is a statement by some hacker that doesn't submit his silver bullet for examination. Given that, I'd say your position is pure conjecture! Plain and simple.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-24-2008, 10:07 PM
 
702 posts, read 2,080,253 times
Reputation: 650
I use both Mac and Windows in a professional environment. Hands down - and 99% in my industry will agree - Mac is better, day in and day out. Personally, I would never give a penny to Microsoft. Never have, never will.

As far as personal home use - I can totally see why people get computer rage and get sucked into endless tech support calls. Often, Windows truly boggles my mind - and I've been working with it for years.

If you're merely comparing Windows vs Mac for personal home use, spend the extra cash and get a clean, solid computer running OSX - and take the time to learn how to use it. You won't be sorry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology > Computers
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top