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Old 09-13-2008, 02:21 PM
 
Location: High Bridge
2,736 posts, read 8,783,211 times
Reputation: 665

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudbeckia View Post
That is what I have read, Vista is ridiculously slow for CAD.
What do you think about running windows on a Mac, and using a mac to do cad work?
Running it in virtualization is a chore; you'll never get the speed of doing it native.

Buying a mac, installing XP, you'll run into the same bit of fun as just buying a PC and installing XP on it - not worth the hassle.

[quote=Rudbeckia;5204998Why do you think one computer company told me XP might not be able to be loaded?[/QUOTE]

Because HP isn't pushing out drivers for XP for many of their new laptops, and getting XP on (as well as all the drivers, but mostly the getting it on part for the SATA issue I mentioned previously) requires a bit of creativity.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:41 PM
 
3,451 posts, read 3,722,529 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudbeckia View Post
I took my computer to a computer store today just to have them look at it, and they told me its IMPOSSIBLE to load XP on it. Everyone I talked to tells me something different, does this guy just not know what he is doing? They said there is a driver for "Sata" that is not available. Anyone know what that is?
He's giving you a run around. I'm running Windows 2000 at home and my PC has two SATA drives. He's probably getting paid to push Vista.

You can load XP onto a PC with SATA drives, it just needs a little massaging.

In the BIOS of any SATA capable PC is a setting which can be changed in order to make the newer SATA drives recognized as if they were regular IDE drives. It's most likely under the hard drive section of the BIOS and is usually called Compatibility Mode or Legacy Mode. By enabling this, the drivers on the XP CD will detect the hard drive and load the OS.

After installing XP, install Service Pack 2 or 3 for XP. Then you can go back into the BIOS, re-enable the SATA functionality and Windows will work fine from then on.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:46 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,578,065 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudbeckia View Post
I have a brand new HP. I want Vista taken off and XP put on.

I have called 2 different companies to do this. One told be it 100% could be done and to bring in the computer and they will do it for 300$ including the software, but I do not get a copy of the xp software.

The other company told me it might not can be done b/c my computer is so new, they have to run a diagnostic first and tell me if they can find the right drivers. If it can be done, they will do it for $234 including the xp software and I get the copy of the software.

Which company is full of sh*t?
As some have stated, it can be done without any issues.

XP will support all the new hardware. In fact, for a while XP supported SLI (running two video cards at a time that share duties for a single display output) when Vista did not. Keep in mind that a lot of your device support is dependent on the device maker, not XP. Just go to the manufactures site and you can look up to see if they have XP drivers and if there are any issues with it.

The only problems people may have on an install is if they have the original XP disk (no Service packs) and they have some of the newer features turned on in the BIOS during install (XP can have trouble with some features causing the install to crash during the device registration).

As for SATA, I haven't seen any problems with it. In fact, I just installed XP on a new machine recently which had a SATA drive, Quad core processor, and one of the newer video cards. I installed it with an old initial release XP copy and had no problems during install.

Even if there are problems with install, most SP2 copies of XP won't have an issue and you can easily get a downloaded copy of SP3 which can be applied to your XP install beforehand allowing it to have all the latest changes being used during that process.



As for which one is being dishonest, I can only say that:

1) XP can be installed on any machine today and be fully functional with most if not all devices currently on the market.

2) The cost of Windows XP (full version) is about 170-200 depending on where you get it.

3) Computer maintenance companies can be as shady as used car dealers, be very very careful about what they say and do some checkup on them and the facts of what they claim.

Now about the not receiving a copy, it depends on some things. There are what we call partition OS installs which are commonly done by big computer manufactures. It usually is a special reserved area of your hard drive that they lock off just to hold the OS setup files. They may give you a CD for emergency repairs of installs, but often this is nothing more than a boot up CD with utilities which accesses that partition on the hard drive.

In most cases, you are licensed with a special OEM tailored agreement with the company who made the machine. Dell will sometimes do this, Gateway has done it and HP has done it from time to time. It serves two purposes.

1) It allows them to tailor the OS install specifically to your machine with all the drivers and service packs directly listed in the install procedure of the machine so it will go smoothly and autosetup everything to the same level it was when you opened the box.

2) It links that OS directly to your machine and makes it extremely difficult for the average user to buy a new machine and use their existing OS for the new one.

edit: one thing to note, as I explained only large companies use the diskless OS approach, chances are if the person isn't giving you a copy, they are just loading a hacked version of the OS and pocketing the money normally spent on the software. They would not have a partition install scheme to be honest, chances are they are hiding something from you.

My advice to you would be to do this. Just to be safe (I am pretty confident it will support your machine) go look up the various hardware in your machine and check the vendors for drivers (not HP unless it is specifically an HP device, but the actual vendor of the part and see if they have an XP driver for it.)

Then pick up a copy of Windows XP from retail or order one OEM online (You can still get XP professional and Home in most places, I reccomend professional and I think for instance Fry's had around 300 copies stacked up last I was there, not to mention I still see home edition in target, best buy, and even walmart)

Then with the information of your compatability and a copy of XP, take it to a computer place and listen to what they tell you. If they say anything other than "Sure, we can install that, the labor is..." and they only charge you for the labor, then weight the price your willing to pay and go with them.

If they give you any other line of BS, run, run away fast. When I was first starting the computer industry many many years ago, I moved up the latter in the field starting out as a salesman for a small computer company. They can really be terrible and take advantage of people. So be very careful (I even reccomend looking up to see if anyone has reported them to consumer reports). Good luck!
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Greenfield, Mo.
82 posts, read 238,489 times
Reputation: 82
Rudbeckia,

Both of the following are correct. I am not sure which stores you talked too or took your computer into but it can 100% be done.

Personally if you like Vista and have the space available on your computer I would run a dual boot system. I've set up dual boot systems for many customers that are having issues like yourself.

As most have said, it just takes the time to find the needed drivers for your hardware and it can be done. XP and The install should not cost much more than 250-300.00, so the prices you were given are accurate.

Based off your statement you have already purchased this unit? But you also might be willing to purchase another. As said before, build your own or have someone build one for you.

I'm sure you can find a store in your area that will do this and you will be able to get XP Home or Pro (if there not PM me and I will be willing to talk you through it step by step ). The cost on one of these custom built machines can very on your needs. The only downfall to a custom built pc is you may or may not end up with a good customer service after all is said and done. If you go this route just make sure you have some sort of warrenty and service contract with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post
Nothing is impossible, anything can be accomplished.

Main point is, if you have the drivers for the motherboard, drives and other system necessities, you can wipe the hard drive clean and install XP onto it. Stores tell you its impossible because oftentimes they don't want to be bothered with figuring it out so therefore says it can't be done. That's the main problem with branded computers because alot of the hardware is proprietary and therefore difficult to find the proper drivers for them.

You could possibly create a dual-boot system with XP and Vista, but its best to make sure you have all the drivers on hand first.

I also second the notion for nLite, I have used it several times already to create custom XP installation discs with the included drivers and latest service pack. Works everytime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
As some have stated, it can be done without any issues.

XP will support all the new hardware. In fact, for a while XP supported SLI (running two video cards at a time that share duties for a single display output) when Vista did not. Keep in mind that a lot of your device support is dependent on the device maker, not XP. Just go to the manufactures site and you can look up to see if they have XP drivers and if there are any issues with it.

The only problems people may have on an install is if they have the original XP disk (no Service packs) and they have some of the newer features turned on in the BIOS during install (XP can have trouble with some features causing the install to crash during the device registration).

As for SATA, I haven't seen any problems with it. In fact, I just installed XP on a new machine recently which had a SATA drive, Quad core processor, and one of the newer video cards. I installed it with an old initial release XP copy and had no problems during install.

Even if there are problems with install, most SP2 copies of XP won't have an issue and you can easily get a downloaded copy of SP3 which can be applied to your XP install beforehand allowing it to have all the latest changes being used during that process.



As for which one is being dishonest, I can only say that:

1) XP can be installed on any machine today and be fully functional with most if not all devices currently on the market.

2) The cost of Windows XP (full version) is about 170-200 depending on where you get it.

3) Computer maintenance companies can be as shady as used car dealers, be very very careful about what they say and do some checkup on them and the facts of what they claim.

Now about the not receiving a copy, it depends on some things. There are what we call partition OS installs which are commonly done by big computer manufactures. It usually is a special reserved area of your hard drive that they lock off just to hold the OS setup files. They may give you a CD for emergency repairs of installs, but often this is nothing more than a boot up CD with utilities which accesses that partition on the hard drive.

In most cases, you are licensed with a special OEM tailored agreement with the company who made the machine. Dell will sometimes do this, Gateway has done it and HP has done it from time to time. It serves two purposes.

1) It allows them to tailor the OS install specifically to your machine with all the drivers and service packs directly listed in the install procedure of the machine so it will go smoothly and autosetup everything to the same level it was when you opened the box.

2) It links that OS directly to your machine and makes it extremely difficult for the average user to buy a new machine and use their existing OS for the new one.

edit: one thing to note, as I explained only large companies use the diskless OS approach, chances are if the person isn't giving you a copy, they are just loading a hacked version of the OS and pocketing the money normally spent on the software. They would not have a partition install scheme to be honest, chances are they are hiding something from you.

My advice to you would be to do this. Just to be safe (I am pretty confident it will support your machine) go look up the various hardware in your machine and check the vendors for drivers (not HP unless it is specifically an HP device, but the actual vendor of the part and see if they have an XP driver for it.)

Then pick up a copy of Windows XP from retail or order one OEM online (You can still get XP professional and Home in most places, I reccomend professional and I think for instance Fry's had around 300 copies stacked up last I was there, not to mention I still see home edition in target, best buy, and even walmart)

Then with the information of your compatability and a copy of XP, take it to a computer place and listen to what they tell you. If they say anything other than "Sure, we can install that, the labor is..." and they only charge you for the labor, then weight the price your willing to pay and go with them.

If they give you any other line of BS, run, run away fast. When I was first starting the computer industry many many years ago, I moved up the latter in the field starting out as a salesman for a small computer company. They can really be terrible and take advantage of people. So be very careful (I even reccomend looking up to see if anyone has reported them to consumer reports). Good luck!

Last edited by visualevo; 09-14-2008 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 09-15-2008, 08:02 AM
 
1,278 posts, read 3,756,349 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualevo View Post
Rudbeckia,

Both of the following are correct. I am not sure which stores you talked too or took your computer into but it can 100% be done.

Personally if you like Vista and have the space available on your computer I would run a dual boot system. I've set up dual boot systems for many customers that are having issues like yourself.

As most have said, it just takes the time to find the needed drivers for your hardware and it can be done. XP and The install should not cost much more than 250-300.00, so the prices you were given are accurate.

Based off your statement you have already purchased this unit? But you also might be willing to purchase another. As said before, build your own or have someone build one for you

I'm sure you can find a store in your area that will do this and you will be able to get XP Home or Pro (if there not PM me and I will be willing to talk you through it step by step ). The cost on one of these custom built machines can very on your needs. The only downfall to a custom built pc is you may or may not end up with a good customer service after all is said and done. If you go this route just make sure you have some sort of warrenty and service contract with them.

Thanks so much guys for all of the info!


Yes I have already purchased it. The company I had look at it is called Lincoln Computer Services if anyone knows that company (I am in NYC)

I actually called HP too, and they told me the same thing, that XP could not be loaded on the machine I purchased.

I guess I just need to find someone willing to do it. This is worse than trying to get my car fixed!!!!
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: United Kingdom
339 posts, read 1,149,538 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudbeckia View Post
Thanks so much guys for all of the info!


Yes I have already purchased it. The company I had look at it is called Lincoln Computer Services if anyone knows that company (I am in NYC)

I actually called HP too, and they told me the same thing, that XP could not be loaded on the machine I purchased.

I guess I just need to find someone willing to do it. This is worse than trying to get my car fixed!!!!
Exactly what make and model of Laptop is this?
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Meeami
532 posts, read 2,131,737 times
Reputation: 274
I'd be surprised if its true that xp cant be installed on it. We run xp on (at this point) 300 or so Toshibas that originally came with vista that we 'downgrade' to xp. No problems so far. But we dont use HP so i cant say.
If you wanted to run the mac, what you want should run in bootcamp just fine. I have a customer that now runs 100% on her mac in bootcamp with xp, for autodesk. She'd had some flaky pc laptops and heard macs were better, and asked me if it could be done, so I did it. And shes happy with it. It runs faster than any of her old laptops did. She runs xp sp2 on a macbook pro. I think its Autodesk 2008.
The $230-300 price is in the ballpark. It can easily take 4 hours to do. The software is on top. If they are selling you pirated software you may be asking for trouble later. If its someone Volume key, well you probably wont have problems later, but may.
Ive never had trouble setting up a sata drive in xp. As long as the driver is out there it should work. Its just an extra step. If your hp has funny buttons and extra hardware features, they may not be supported in xp. (like dells new silly video screen on the case)
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:39 AM
 
Location: United Kingdom
339 posts, read 1,149,538 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbugmiami View Post
I'd be surprised if its true that xp cant be installed on it. We run xp on (at this point) 300 or so Toshibas that originally came with vista that we 'downgrade' to xp. No problems so far. But we dont use HP so i cant say.
If you wanted to run the mac, what you want should run in bootcamp just fine. I have a customer that now runs 100% on her mac in bootcamp with xp, for autodesk. She'd had some flaky pc laptops and heard macs were better, and asked me if it could be done, so I did it. And shes happy with it. It runs faster than any of her old laptops did. She runs xp sp2 on a macbook pro. I think its Autodesk 2008.
The $230-300 price is in the ballpark. It can easily take 4 hours to do. The software is on top. If they are selling you pirated software you may be asking for trouble later. If its someone Volume key, well you probably wont have problems later, but may.
Ive never had trouble setting up a sata drive in xp. As long as the driver is out there it should work. Its just an extra step. If your hp has funny buttons and extra hardware features, they may not be supported in xp. (like dells new silly video screen on the case)
I wouldn't be surprised if the driver is not available, so that is why we need tio know the exact model to do more research.
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Old 09-16-2008, 03:00 AM
 
702 posts, read 2,080,150 times
Reputation: 650
I love the title of this thread. It says something.

To anyone who is familiar with Quark XPress (former giant of desktop publishing software that is now grasping for straws), they've just announced a "partnership" with Microsoft. Buh-bye!
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:06 AM
 
1,278 posts, read 3,756,349 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by collinsl View Post
Exactly what make and model of Laptop is this?

HP Pavilion DV5T Gaming Laptop Notebook
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