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Old 01-23-2009, 11:49 PM
 
Location: USA
701 posts, read 993,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster View Post
In addition.. here's proof.. that apple is taking a hit.. there growth is slowing..

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20090121-apple-earnings-take-a-hit-but-not-a-dive.html

When it comes to hard times it doesn't take a economic genius to tell you people will spend with their pocketbook and opt out of mac feel good marketing to buy cheaper pc's..
....
"The company makes the kind of high-end consumer electronics that many have suggested would be the first things crossed off the holiday shopping list when the economy deteriorated. That certainly wasn't a recipe for growth, but it didn't seem to cause a collapse of sales, either. So far, the markets seem to think the news was good. After rising six percent during the day, slightly ahead of the broader market, after-hours trading has seen a further gain of over eight percent."

Seems like pretty good news for Apple, considering other tech companies like Microsoft, Dell, etc... are laying off people. Might even be a good time to buy Apple stock since it's reasonably priced. But the effect of Steve Jobs' illness on the stock is hard to predict.

I think as long as Apple keeps marketing its products as being innovative and as high-end tools, it will always have customers willing to pay the higher price. Apple probably will never dominate the "personal computer" market, but they probably don't want to anyway. What's more important is that their profit margin per machine is probably larger than, say Dell or HP or other clone makers.

Now Microsoft, .... I never thought it possible but I think they'll be challenged in the near future by the rising acceptance of the open source software. LInux has already been accepted in the Fortune 500 data centers for quite a few years now. More and more "non-techies" are downloading Ubuntu/LinuxMint/RedHat, etc... for their home PCs. And I know of several companies that have dropped Microsoft Office suite as the office standard and replaced it with the open source alternatives like the Open Office suite.

Windows 7 better be a home run. Otherwise, .... never say never - AT&T was once the biggest company in the world.
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,193 posts, read 22,569,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastninja500 View Post
....
"The company makes the kind of high-end consumer electronics that many have suggested would be the first things crossed off the holiday shopping list when the economy deteriorated. That certainly wasn't a recipe for growth, but it didn't seem to cause a collapse of sales, either. So far, the markets seem to think the news was good. After rising six percent during the day, slightly ahead of the broader market, after-hours trading has seen a further gain of over eight percent."

Seems like pretty good news for Apple, considering other tech companies like Microsoft, Dell, etc... are laying off people. Might even be a good time to buy Apple stock since it's reasonably priced. But the effect of Steve Jobs' illness on the stock is hard to predict.

I think as long as Apple keeps marketing its products as being innovative and as high-end tools, it will always have customers willing to pay the higher price. Apple probably will never dominate the "personal computer" market, but they probably don't want to anyway. What's more important is that their profit margin per machine is probably larger than, say Dell or HP or other clone makers.
Yes, yes, and yes. What the PC folk do not realize is that Apple fans have been willing to pay that price for over a decade now. It's a Mac thing, you wouldn't understand (I couldn't resist saying that). You know, Macs gained in popularity and true hard-core fandom came about during the recession of the late 90's early.....oughts (or what-ever the early 2000s are called). Nothing is going to be different this time around.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fastninja500 View Post
Now Microsoft, .... I never thought it possible but I think they'll be challenged in the near future by the rising acceptance of the open source software. LInux has already been accepted in the Fortune 500 data centers for quite a few years now. More and more "non-techies" are downloading Ubuntu/LinuxMint/RedHat, etc... for their home PCs. And I know of several companies that have dropped Microsoft Office suite as the office standard and replaced it with the open source alternatives like the Open Office suite.
I would have to say no. While open source is gaining in popularity, it is mostly because users do not want to pay $400 + for a program that they can legally get for free. There are other reasons, too, but it usually boils down to that. Linux, has become more popular, but that is also because it is a free OS, but the average computer user will be lost with the overwhelming majority of Linux distros as they require some skill with root level commands to make things work. Ubuntu and Redhat, among a very few select group of others, can work 'right out of the box', but even they are not as compatable as Windows or OSX with hardware and software without some level of computer programing expertise.

Linux has been around for a long time, before any other 'real' OS. It has never really taken off as far as home users are concerned.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:28 PM
 
Location: USA
701 posts, read 993,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
... I would have to say no. While open source is gaining in popularity, it is mostly because users do not want to pay $400 + for a program that they can legally get for free. There are other reasons, too, but it usually boils down to that.
Most folks already have Windows XP or Vista on their machines when they bought it. But if they're not happy with it because of, say, Winrot, then they'll try Linux.

Speed, Stability and Security are the reasons I moved to Linux, as I suspect for most people that did. Being free is just a bonus. I like Linux so much that I contribute money to a few distros, thereby negating the perceived "cost advantage" of Linux over Windows.

I like having the choice of "trying before buying" a product.

Quote:
Linux, has become more popular, but that is also because it is a free OS, but the average computer user will be lost with the overwhelming majority of Linux distros as they require some skill with root level commands to make things work. Ubuntu and Redhat, among a very few select group of others, can work 'right out of the box', but even they are not as compatable as Windows or OSX with hardware and software without some level of computer programing expertise.
Ironically, the ease of installing Linux is actually what sold me on it! Except for the first couple of minutes, where you specify language and timezone, the install process was practically un-attended. No need for root level commands. It was like installing Windows XP, only easier and faster. All the correct drivers were used. That's why I've played around with various distros so much.

Of course, I only use the more user-friendly versions of Linux. I found installing the most recent distributions of Linux (Red Hat/Fedora, Slackware, Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu, Linux Mint, heck, even slightly buggy Dream Linux) easier and faster than installing Windows XP / MS Office. On different types of PCs and Laptops.

Sould I try to install Vista on these machines? I'd rather get a root canal.


Quote:
Linux has been around for a long time, before any other 'real' OS. It has never really taken off as far as home users are concerned.
I think that perception has changed in the last 3 years. It ain't "just for techies" anymore. I've read some trade journals that there are more Linux users worldwide that Mac users. Even in Fortune 500 datacenters, Linux servers are used more than Mac OS.

You know what? In the end, it doesn't really matter. There's more than enough room for Macs, Linux and Windows. More choice. More freedom. Other countries have their own versions of OS and Office suites.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:59 PM
 
Location: USA
3,966 posts, read 9,516,979 times
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i would buy a PC because its cheaper.
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:33 PM
 
Location: kcmo
712 posts, read 1,963,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastninja500 View Post
I think that perception has changed in the last 3 years. It ain't "just for techies" anymore. I've read some trade journals that there are more Linux users worldwide that Mac users. Even in Fortune 500 datacenters, Linux servers are used more than Mac OS.
People been saying it isn't for techies for years.. there's no way there's going to be a shift to linux without a major event or application to shift peoples.. linux/bsd owns the server market.. at least 50% + are running a form of BSD

The only way to move linux into the mainstream/desktop is to have a fundamental shift.. but when that's going to happen or how I don't know.. the bottom-line is I always use a paradigm.. "if it takes the average user 1 hour to burn a cd in windows.. that will take 3 hours in linux"

What's funniest of all in this parody of a thread.. is if in OSX was targeted legally on the x86 there might be a bigger shift..
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,544 posts, read 26,365,246 times
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If you bench test Mac, Linux and PC all with similar set up and tests you will find there isn't a nickles worth of difference in performance. The three are high end machines. What people in forums try to do is compare an operating system to an Apple manufactured machine that is ready to work out of the box. It takes less than ten minutes to unpack a Mac and go to work. It is complete and tested before itis shipped. What I learned about Linux - and it may have changed greatly - is that you need to know a lot about the hardware Linux uses to get everything to work right the first time. Mac will run a very long time before it needs a manor hardware upgrade. More importantly new peripherals are backward compatible so that, say, your printer quits, the new one will work with your old Mac. It's hogwash that the printers for PC are cheaper than Mac. We use the same stuff. The difference is we know which product works best with our Mac. I like the Epson 3 in 1. The PC version costs as much as the Mac version. The question is whether you want a $30 printer or you want to pop for the Epson. It all bolls down to what you are willing to pay for the job you need to do.
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,723 posts, read 29,312,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
If you bench test Mac, Linux and PC all with similar set up and tests you will find there isn't a nickles worth of difference in performance. The three are high end machines. What people in forums try to do is compare an operating system to an Apple manufactured machine that is ready to work out of the box. It takes less than ten minutes to unpack a Mac and go to work. It is complete and tested before itis shipped. What I learned about Linux - and it may have changed greatly - is that you need to know a lot about the hardware Linux uses to get everything to work right the first time. Mac will run a very long time before it needs a manor hardware upgrade. More importantly new peripherals are backward compatible so that, say, your printer quits, the new one will work with your old Mac. It's hogwash that the printers for PC are cheaper than Mac. We use the same stuff. The difference is we know which product works best with our Mac. I like the Epson 3 in 1. The PC version costs as much as the Mac version. The question is whether you want a $30 printer or you want to pop for the Epson. It all bolls down to what you are willing to pay for the job you need to do.
You are right about it. I use PC and Mac drives on my iMac, and the same goes for printers, scanners, etc. I have never had a hard drive go bad on me. The internal hard drive of my Mac is only 80GB in size, so I am replacing it this weekend with a $49.99 Seagate 250GB SATA drive, which is the same used on PCs. The RAM modules in my iMac are PC 3200, which also is used on PC computers. I buy mostly from "newegg.com"
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:34 AM
 
Location: kcmo
712 posts, read 1,963,274 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
What people in forums try to do is compare an operating system to an Apple manufactured machine that is ready to work out of the box. It takes less than ten minutes to unpack a Mac and go to work. It is complete and tested before itis shipped. What I learned about Linux - and it may have changed greatly - is that you need to know a lot about the hardware Linux uses to get everything to work right the first time. Mac will run a very long time before it needs a manor hardware upgrade. More importantly new peripherals are backward compatible so that, say, your printer quits, the new one will work with your old Mac. It's hogwash that the printers for PC are cheaper than Mac. We use the same stuff. The difference is we know which product works best with our Mac. I like the Epson 3 in 1. The PC version costs as much as the Mac version. The question is whether you want a $30 printer or you want to pop for the Epson. It all bolls down to what you are willing to pay for the job you need to do.
No actually.. all his points are nonsense.. (from my point of view)

I see so your 1st statement basically says mac is ready to go out of the box.. obviously pc's need like 2 hours of tech support before you can get on the internet?

There is no difference anymore between a Mac and PC hardware they are now exactly the same thing.. there is no difference between the statement of.. "Mac/PC will run a very long time before it needs a major hardware upgrade"

The reason why you can't use that $30 printer is cause your part of the 1% market and therefore not worthy of anything but extra $$$ for possibly a better printer.. my rule of thumb is always expect to pay *more* for anything on Mac OSX.. and that's fine if your happy to do it.. as pointed out on more then one occasion the re-sale value is good sometimes..

I'll re-state what I said earlier on.. either when you buy a new mac you pay a hell of a lot of money for hardware that is 3x less on the pc side or your paying that extra $1k for that very expensive operating system Mac OSX vs. $20-100 for a windows license..

Last edited by themaster; 01-28-2009 at 07:00 AM..
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:40 AM
 
10,752 posts, read 18,003,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster View Post
I'll re-state what I said earlier on.. either when you buy a new mac you pay a hell of a lot of money for hardware that is 3x less on the pc side or your paying that extra $1k for that very expensive operating system Mac OSX vs. $20-100 for a windows license..
Actually since you can buy Leopard for around $100, it would be more acurate to say your paying the extra grand for the design and the "I have a Mac" factor, kind of like the tree huggers owning a Prius
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,193 posts, read 22,569,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster View Post
I see so your 1st statement basically says mac is ready to go out of the box.. obviously pc's need like 2 hours of tech support before you can get on the internet?
Well, you still need to install OSX which is a beast and takes around an hour to install, but after that, you are good to go .

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster View Post
There is no difference anymore between a Mac and PC hardware they are now exactly the same thing.. there is no difference between the statement of.. "Mac/PC will run a very long time before it needs a major hardware upgrade"
Aside from the OS, everything is fairly similar now, however you still can't make a blanket statement that Macs and PC's are now one and the same. The Mac line-up is fairly similar amongst itself but PC's vary by manufacturer, so you would have to compare Macs to Dells, Macs to Toshibas, Macs to HPs, etc. People tend to lump PC's into one category. You can do this with Macs, but each PC manufacturer is limited to their own design specs. Just because they all run Windows does not mean that they are all the same.

'PC's' and Macs both can have a long life, but from my point of view the Mac will last longer without much upkeep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster View Post
The reason why you can't use that $30 printer is cause your part of the 1% market and therefore not worthy of anything but extra $$$ for possibly a better printer.. my rule of thumb is always expect to pay *more* for anything on Mac OSX.. and that's fine if your happy to do it.. as pointed out on more then one occasion the re-sale value is good sometimes..
I have used cheap peripherals on Macs before, mainly printers and keyboards. Yes, there was a time (pre-2006) when for some reason anything that was made for Mac costs two to three times as much as its PC counterpart, but things have changed and as long as it has a USB or firewire port (and not some goofy legacy port) then it is more than likely going to work. Yes, there are a few items that simply will not work on a Mac (new or old) but those numbers are shrinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster View Post
I'll re-state what I said earlier on.. either when you buy a new mac you pay a hell of a lot of money for hardware that is 3x less on the pc side or your paying that extra $1k for that very expensive operating system Mac OSX vs. $20-100 for a windows license..
If Mac and PC hardware are the same then why would you be charged 3x more if you own a Mac?
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