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Old 05-02-2009, 04:52 PM
 
40,293 posts, read 41,843,525 times
Reputation: 16806

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutleynut View Post
The intensity of the opinions is surprising.
As forum owner you want to be continually on the watch for such activity. It can get out of hand if you don't. There's a fine line between providing information and giving a sales pitch. That's why I have a group for manufacturers on my own forum so they are clearly identified as reps for the company and some strict guidelines as to what they can and cannot do.

As I said above this is booming business in India, they have people cracking captchas and posting. They'll usually try and get a few posts in to get under the moderators radar then post links. They'll even work with multiple accounts such as posting a question with one and answering with another... I kid you not.

Quote:
Inside India's CAPTCHA solving economy | Zero Day | ZDNet.com

No CAPTCHA can survive a human that’s receiving financial incentives for solving it, and with an army of low-wagedIndia CAPTCHA breakers human CAPTCHA solvers officially in the business of “data processing” while earning a mere $2 for solving a thousand CAPTCHA’s, I’m already starting to see evidence of consolidation between India’s major CAPTCHA solving companies. The consolidation logically leading to increased bargaining power, is resulting in an international franchising model recruiting data processing workers empowered with do-it-yourself CAPTCHA syndication web based kits, API keys, and thousands of proxies to make their work easier, and the process more efficient.

 
Old 05-02-2009, 08:00 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,273,417 times
Reputation: 8302
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
As forum owner you want to be continually on the watch for such activity. It can get out of hand if you don't.
Spammers on forums are usually ridiculed, and ignored by normal users. The need for moderation intervention usually revolves around troll, flamers, attention whores, and personal attacks.

Why pay even a pittance of a wage in India for people to hack captuas, there are simply captured and then presented to people trying to get into porn sites, and it is done in real time so bots can create accounts on the fly, thanks to the millions trying to see some free porn.

cudos for staying on top of your forum, but CD ain't yours, and the administrator and moderators here seem to have things well under control.
 
Old 05-03-2009, 04:00 AM
 
40,293 posts, read 41,843,525 times
Reputation: 16806
Not sure what you beef is Asheville Native but I'm just stating facts based on my personal experience and knowledge on the subject which again is going to be much more than most people. Because of my position on phpbb.com I can also draw from the experience of literally thousands of other forum owners some of whom have been doing this for many years in addtion to what I've seen on daily basis for the last 5 years. This is a major issue and if you think it doesn't go beyond the basic spam you usually see you're sorely mistaken. As the sophistication for detecting and deterring these posts has increased so has the sophistication of the posts. Again I have a lot of experience with this and

Because of better moderation tools other other features being implemented on most forum software and other applications where you can post messages typical spam is becoming a thing of the past. Most of the posting we see now on phpbb.com of suspected spam activity is evolving away from bot activity and more towards real people or very sophisticated bots most likely using something like the ALICE AI engine. Here's an example of ALICE in action where I purposely installed in on a forum for amusement purposes:

HEAD2Head :: vizio flat screen monitors Page 1 of 3

As you can see the bot can hold quite an intelligent conversation, it also learns as it goes along and can start to call people by their name or even ask "human" type spontaneous questions simply from chatting with people. This is a fairly "young" installation because it hasn't been utilized much so it's quite standard and hasn't learned much yet. There's also a back end that will give you a list of conversation parts it stumbled on. You can also specifically input how it should respond to specific phrases, give it keywords that you want it to respond too.... see where I'm going?


The spammer of old would be using something like xrumer:


YouTube - XRumer SEO Blackhat Post To 100k or Millions Of Forums Blogs

This type of activity will no longer work effectively on a new phpbb forum if the administrator has the post queue activated which allows moderators to review new members posts and approve them before they go public. The member needs to reach X amount of posts before they can post without approval. The typical spam never makes it to the public. This has forced the spammers to up the ante, they now need to provide posts with at least some amount of value which can only be provided by a human or a very sophisticated bot like ALICE. These types of posts are not as easily detected especially by average forum members that may not even be aware such things happen.

Most of the above is about your typical spam. That doesn't preclude companies from doing it themselves. Here's a recent article about Belkin admittedly doing it on amazon reviews: http://www.betanews.com/article/Empl...cam/1232491155
Quote:
"...For years it has been pressed upon ALL Belkin employees to do whatever is needed to get good product reviews and good press. Everything from sending blog writers a device with custom firmware that hides known bugs yet claiming it to be official release firmware, faking hardware logo certifications (specifically Apple and MSFT), releasing blatantly inaccurate data from test results making our devices look superior to others, to placing "tailored" reviews of our products into places visible to consumers (as reported Amazon, etc), as well as writing poor reviews of competitors products.

Last edited by thecoalman; 05-03-2009 at 04:26 AM..
 
Old 05-03-2009, 10:10 AM
 
652 posts, read 1,602,091 times
Reputation: 346
My OP was a question, followed by an explanation/reason of why I posted it. Except for a couple of responses that directly and immediatly addressed the question, most people have attacked the explanation/reason for the question.
Now there is a discussion going on that is admittedly interesting but way off the topic. I don't want to stop this I'm just summing up my observations of what my OP has generated thus far.
I do believe I can now say this, Asheville Native, me thinks thou doth protesteth too much. There is something way off about your responses. They seem like you are responding to your own thoughts, rather than the posts trying to interlocute (sp? term?) with you.
Coalman don't give away too much info on anti spam practices. This thread may be getting steered to have you give exactly that away.
It always results in a more honest and wholesome interaction when one addresses the words one sees rather than the thoughts or perceptions one has as the result of reading those words. These thoughts and perceptions are to be used internally to gage and regulate the response, not to be the response itself.
rage on!
 
Old 05-03-2009, 10:29 AM
 
40,293 posts, read 41,843,525 times
Reputation: 16806
Quote:
Coalman don't give away too much info on anti spam practices.
There's nothing to give away at least as far as what I posted, they are well aware of the capabilities of the software hence the reason we are seeing less bots and more humans.

Any new method is only a secret right up until the point it gets released.
 
Old 05-03-2009, 10:29 AM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,273,417 times
Reputation: 8302
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Not sure what you beef is Asheville Native but I'm just stating facts based on my personal experience and knowledge on the subject which again is going to be much more than most people. Because of my position on phpbb.com I can also draw from the experience of literally thousands of other forum owners some of whom have been doing this for many years in addtion to what I've seen on daily basis for the last 5 years.

OK, I am so impressed with your vast experience that I as subdued into a sobbing mass at in my computer chair.

BUT, how does all that relate to your insinuation of activities in this subforum on CD, as you have yet to provide any substantiation of accusations of a problem here, with the exception of a few removed (thus the Google cache link) attempts here, that have been dealt with by CD moderators.

Last edited by ShadowCaver; 05-03-2009 at 04:24 PM..
 
Old 05-03-2009, 02:10 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,750 posts, read 11,317,384 times
Reputation: 7707
I can't imagine what practical purpose was served by starting this thread. None of the regulars on here are selling anything. We DO get a post once in a while that is obviously promoting a product. They are easy to spot. New member, rep 10, 1 post, starts a thread about a great product with a link. The mods make it go away before most people even see it.

Last edited by ShadowCaver; 05-03-2009 at 04:24 PM..
 
Old 05-03-2009, 02:11 PM
 
40,293 posts, read 41,843,525 times
Reputation: 16806
Quote:
how does all that relate to your insinuation of activities in this subforum on CD
..it's not just this forum but any forum. Are you blind?

Since you seem to be the expert here let us know what your qualifications are to make the statement it doesn't happen.
 
Old 05-03-2009, 02:15 PM
 
40,293 posts, read 41,843,525 times
Reputation: 16806
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
New member, rep 10, 1 post, starts a thread about a great product with a link .
If you have read some of my posts above you'll see it can be more complicated than that. The posts from bots are quite easy to spot but if you follow the link to the one I posted with Google's cache you'll see a completely different type of post than what you would expect from a spammer. It's not until page two after carrying the conversation on that the product and link gets dropped.
 
Old 05-03-2009, 04:31 PM
 
Location: MO Ozarkian in NE Hoosierana
4,679 posts, read 10,954,309 times
Reputation: 6903
The initial post may or may not have had validity - however, unfortunately, this thread has degraded into attacks and insinuations, most that do NOT have any merit. Thread is closed.
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