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Old 02-03-2011, 05:51 PM
 
15,524 posts, read 6,041,054 times
Reputation: 5617
The problem is the tri-state lives in fear of the state employee unions. Its changing; Cuomo is expected to cut 10-15,000 heads, and Christie is taking on all comers, but will it ever change in CT-don't know. W/O changing employee headcount big time, of course big tax hikes will be imposed.

We just saw a super pro business governor here leave due to term limits. A Fiscally conservative Dem who cut a few thousand state employees in order to ensure our remaining one of 8 income tax free states in the nation. So both parties have folks who can cut, but it takes guts. (PS, Our gov also got a big round of concessions a few years back by printing pink slips first, passing them out with last day being a few weeks away, and then "negotiating" with the union, which gave back enough to rescind the pink slips. Very gutsy move.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:52 PM
 
659 posts, read 535,779 times
Reputation: 276
TinKnocker,

When I said they use a lot of resources it wasn't for no reason. Here's an exercise, try really hard to think of what I meant about how the well off use the system everyday to make their ventures profitable.

YankeeRose,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
I can't understand why there is even a debate as to who should pay more taxes. We ALL pay too much in taxes! That is except for those who've learned how to work the system. People like my inlaws who work little enough that they actually get more back in taxes than they pay. It's sickening.
I can't understand why there shouldn't be a debate. As for people that work the system... those are the ones you are completely defending.

The tax-rates have been the lowest they have been Federally since the 1950's! When is low enough low enough? We had a shot at the lower-tax, high growth model but it simply doesn't work. We've had low tax and negative growth. Asset bubbles have been appearing in the last 30 years and usually wipe out whatever wealth was created. Infrastructure and social services tend to do much more for the economy than "letting the people keep their money." Not saying it can't swing too far in the other direction, but that's not where we are now and haven't been in decades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
But for the rest of the state, middle class to upper class we pay too much in taxes for what we receive. Are we supposed to believe that other states lower taxes don't have police and fireman, don't have public schools, don't get the roads paved? Come on, wake up Connecticut and realize when you're being hosed on taxes. Stop defending the amount of money we are taxed.
I will defend the amount that has been spent, because state expenditures to GSP has been incredibly low in Connecticut for nearly a decade and a half. Part of it the State steps in where Counties usually would, and the COL is high so the sticker price shock is there.

And don't receive much??? Study after study finds that Connecticut ranks among the top of the world (if it were its' own nation) in Quality of life and economic power. We are being hosed on taxes, but again you hate welfare until it's to States that can absolve their rich of the burden at our expense. If they were doing so well, why isn't Connecticut and our Northeast and Mid-West neighbours on the black side of Federal Spending, instead of the red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
The middle class may pay a lower percentage of taxes but they feel it more. The wealthy who may make 2 million a year but pay half of that in taxes may feel it less, but it's no less disgusting. We all have a right to demand the state trims it's budget. Not try to figure out which people are more deserving of a tax break.
And I, and those like me, have a right to demand that even those that don't want to pay, or see the value for them, contribute for making their lives easier. There are less fortunate, but rarely is the case people are forever in that position. The tides of fortune for American families is always waxing and wanning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
What amazes me, is if a person came on this board complaining that they can't pay their bills, wouldn't the first thing you would tell them to do it attempt to trim their budget and cut excess spending? Then once they've trimmed the fat off their budget, if they still can't make ends meet, then they need to go out and look for a 2nd job to bring in higher income. But the first step to balancing a budget is to limit the payables. Then work on getting more receivables.
There is a huge difference between governmental finance and personal finance. Yes, there are marginal changes that one can make in their personal life to ease expenses (as government should always be looking to do), but sometimes the advice is to find side-work aka increasing income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
The tri-state area doesn't know how to do that. When money gets low, just demand more taxes. And look how well it's worked out for them! NJ/CT are wealthy, densely populated states who pay more in taxes than the rest of the country. But both states are broke. Good job!
Almost every state is broke. That's the problem. Only a handful of states are doing alright, and most of that is from excise taxes on mineral extraction and refining. As well those states tend to work counter-cyclical to national trends during booms and busts.

JV,

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/bu...leonhardt.html

Exert:

"The reason is that poor families generally pay more in payroll taxes than they receive through benefits like the Earned Income Tax Credit. It’s not just poor families for whom the payroll tax is a big deal, either. About three-quarters of all American households pay more in payroll taxes, which go toward Medicare and Social Security, than in income taxes."

The problem is that most people focus on Federal Income tax, and not Payroll (which is a 1/3rd of all Federal Revenue) and Social Security (which is a separate self funded tax, paid mostly by the middle and lower classes) that the SS puts into Federal Bonds. SS and other state/federal institutions are the biggest creditor to the US Government, all paid for with middle and lower classes monies. Sure some get it back in the form of SS cheques, but to say the Wealthy pay more taxes is certainly debatable.

~Cheers
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:57 PM
 
659 posts, read 535,779 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by renovating View Post
Stupidity? Hmmm can you clarify?
"I am for the traditional values of Marriage. That's why I only do it to settle tribal feuds and to increase land holdings."

-Dr. Colbert
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:59 PM
 
Location: The brown house on the cul de sac
2,081 posts, read 2,515,269 times
Reputation: 9253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211 View Post
"I am for the traditional values of Marriage. That's why I only do it to settle tribal feuds and to increase land holdings."

-Dr. Colbert
Tribal feuds and land holdings? Bwahahahahha! Thanks for the laugh!
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Central Virginia
834 posts, read 1,199,740 times
Reputation: 617
Bleeker you should be a politician. A whole lot of fluff and no substance. What you are saying is all smoke and mirrors.

Quote:
Study after study finds that Connecticut ranks among the top of the world (if it were its' own nation) in Quality of life and economic power
I hear this a lot. Yet, after living here two years, I have yet to find one thing I receive in CT that I did not receive in the other 3 states I lived. Seriously. I cannot find one thing that CT can claim to have that you can't find in a cheaper state.
Few things can decrease a person's quality of life faster than worrying about money and bills.

And economic power? How do you explain the wealthiest county in CT not even cracking the top 25 wealthiest counties in the US? hmmmm?

This state has a lot of offer. It's a great state. But it is NOT a great state because of it's tax burden. Sorry, I just won't buy it no matter how many times you spin it.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:52 PM
 
659 posts, read 535,779 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
Bleeker you should be a politician. A whole lot of fluff and no substance. What you are saying is all smoke and mirrors.
First off, it's Beeker, no "L." Like the muppet, not that kind of not funny sitcom. :P

I've thought about becoming a politician, more like a TPZ kind of thing. As for smoke and mirrors, I tend not to think so. In debates usually, one side provides points and the other side presents counter-points. I'm just trying to use facts and figures to explain how I came to conclusions. If it is indeed smoke and mirrors, by all means present your rebuttal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
I hear this a lot. Yet, after living here two years, I have yet to find one thing I receive in CT that I did not receive in the other 3 states I lived. Seriously. I cannot find one thing that CT can claim to have that you can't find in a cheaper state.
It depends on the "cheaper" State, but this tends to be the case more than times than not:

Lower crime rates, better access to high quality medical care, a highly educated populace, one of the highest per capita production, generally better and safer working conditions, higher home values (which means, by the way, people want to live here and are willing to pay for it), a fairly low sales tax with groceries exempt, fantastic and affordable higher education. If it weren't for your favourite "low cost states" the United States would be about par with our industrial cousins in terms of health, income, crime, poverty, education, per capita GDP, etc etc etc. And again, that's with them getting all of the Federal monies they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
Few things can decrease a person's quality of life faster than worrying about money and bills.
Food insecurity tends to be worse. Much worse. It leads to higher cases of diabetes, obesity, low performance at work and school, and higher tendencies for anti-social behaviour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
And economic power? How do you explain the wealthiest county in CT not even cracking the top 25 wealthiest counties in the US? hmmmm?
If you look at per capita GSP we are at the top. Egypt, a country of 80M, has a comparable GDP to Connecticut. Manufacturing in CT is the most productive than more than 40 states on a case by case basis. There are downsides to the Connecticut economy, mostly the high real estate prices and electricity costs, but overall you could do so much worse in many parts of the country to set up shop.

And the article you posted took care of that, you only looked at Median Household Income, which is different than "average" and muchhh different from Modal. As well, a lot of people got laid off here as a result of the World Economy almost imploding. And why would Fairfield County need to be "#1" anyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
This state has a lot of offer. It's a great state. But it is NOT a great state because of it's tax burden. Sorry, I just won't buy it no matter how many times you spin it.
But everything that makes it great, and helps buoy greatness in other parts of the country, costs money. Would you invest in a corporation that paid out all of it's revenue to shareholders? If you would then good luck, cause a company that doesn't invest in itself is a company that stagnates. I often hear that "government should be more like business" except when it comes to that part.

~Cheers
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Central Virginia
834 posts, read 1,199,740 times
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CT has money because of the old money. When you look at new money it does not fare well hence not being in the top 25. No new money means no growth. Why does it matter that CT doesn't have any counties in the top 25? Well it doesn't....except that our taxes say otherwise. It can't be both. If a state is going to tax people out the yin yang, it should have the economic growth to back that up. Take away NYC and CT's job market is not better than the rest of the country.

This state works if you are wealthy or if you are poor. If you are middle class, there better be other reasons you are here because financially, there are better places to live.

Quote:
ower crime rates, better access to high quality medical care, a highly educated populace, one of the highest per capita production, generally better and safer working conditions, higher home values (which means, by the way, people want to live here and are willing to pay for it), a fairly low sales tax with groceries exempt, fantastic and affordable higher education. If it weren't for your favourite "low cost states" the United States would be about par with our industrial cousins in terms of health, income, crime, poverty, education, per capita GDP, etc etc etc. And again, that's with them getting all of the Federal monies they do.
All of those things can be found in other states with lower taxes and a cheaper cost of living. There is nothing there that is unique to CT or any other high COL state. There are plenty of crappy cities full of crime and horrible schools here that receive plenty of money. High tax dollars obviously don't solve our problems or the state wouldn't be broke!

I don't agree with all of the Federal money that gets disbursed either. More government and more bureaucratic red tape. Ridiculous. Let each state fund itself. It doesn't make me feel better knowing that my money pays for crackheads and baby mamas in this state as well as other states. So again, still not seeing the benefit of high taxes.

Schools that do well are a result of having parents that care. NOT tax dollars. An educated populace comes from a populace that values education. NOT tax dollars.

And better and safer work conditions? Whaaa? Do you think working conditions outside of the tri-state area are akin to the Great Depression?

And I don't favor low cost of living areas. Low COL would be something like Mississippi or Arkansas. You could give me a house and I wouldn't live someplace like that. I'm talking low-ER cost of living. Huge difference.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:12 AM
 
659 posts, read 535,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
CT has money because of the old money. When you look at new money it does not fare well hence not being in the top 25. No new money means no growth. Why does it matter that CT doesn't have any counties in the top 25? Well it doesn't....except that our taxes say otherwise. It can't be both. If a state is going to tax people out the yin yang, it should have the economic growth to back that up. Take away NYC and CT's job market is not better than the rest of the country.
No new money? The stats you showed had highest Median Household incomes. CT as a state has the second or third highest Median Household income, of the top five average household and per capita income, and low wealth built into real estate (crazy but true). And again if you scrolled down your own source, you'd see "Fairfield County, Connecticut" on many of those lists still. And plus besides New York County, how many of those places not only have the ritzy areas but their states worst areas (which are pretty bad in CT, but not as bad as their rep has it).

And "take away NYC" and CT's job market is not better? Now, maybe, but we again we almost had another Great Depression. It's kind of silly because a) $12 Trillion was lost in assets, which hit numerous households here deep, and b) less the 5% of Fairfield County's workers do so in NYC. Connecticut's financial sector was/is tied to the world's economy, not just NYC's.

And finally there has been economic growth, even though it hardly matters. Growth is a fool's errand, it's the bet on the fast cars and big money, but honestly stable and consistent economic output seems to be the net positive, not chasing the elusive "growth."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
This state works if you are wealthy or if you are poor. If you are middle class, there better be other reasons you are here because financially, there are better places to live.
For some people I'm sure. But you seem to think the middle class has been doing great outside of CT? Wages nationwide for the middle income groups (not even middle class) have stagnated for a good portion of 30 years as PPP declined. A lot of that is the cost of health insurance, but other is lack of leverage at the work place.

This was with the "trickle down" theories in place. Where was the growth for the common man? Where was the outstanding economic boom we were supposed to have because we allowed capital to be "unleashed" by the producers? Why were we facing the precipice just two years ago? Could never have been the fault of bankrupt policies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
All of those things can be found in other states with lower taxes and a cheaper cost of living. There is nothing there that is unique to CT or any other high COL state. There are plenty of crappy cities full of crime and horrible schools here that receive plenty of money. High tax dollars obviously don't solve our problems or the state wouldn't be broke!
UGH. Almost EVERY state is broke. Didn't matter if they were a high-tax state or a low-tax state. The only saving thing was if you had something in the ground that could be pumped out and then taxed, those states are in the black. But barely. Very Barely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
I don't agree with all of the Federal money that gets disbursed either. More government and more bureaucratic red tape. Ridiculous. Let each state fund itself. It doesn't make me feel better knowing that my money pays for crackheads and baby mamas in this state as well as other states. So again, still not seeing the benefit of high taxes.
But you still have the disconnect between the services you are reciving and someone else paying for it. You say you like those states and their services, but would they be able to do it just with their tax structures? And again, you were more than happy to take advantage of the system when it was to your benefit... how is that sooooo different than the "crack heads" that you apparently revile?

Ugh, do you know what a "straw man" is? Cause that is what you are using when you lump all those on assistance as "crackheads" not caring that the vast majority are people in temporary need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
Schools that do well are a result of having parents that care. NOT tax dollars. An educated populace comes from a populace that values education. NOT tax dollars.
No. While parental involvement helps, it is certainly not the sole determining factor. Tax dollars matter, without it it becomes much harder, no matter how good of a parent you think you are.

There are a lot of people that do well DESPITE their parents, and thanks to my parents, mine, and my state's taxes they have a fighting shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
And better and safer work conditions? Whaaa? Do you think working conditions outside of the tri-state area are akin to the Great Depression?
It depends. A office job is an office job. Once you get out of there though it depends on the individual jurisdiction and sector of the economy.

As someone who has worked in many factories: it's dangerous as is. So yes, if the law allows way more leeway with their maintenance those corners will likely be taken. AND YES, workplace injuries and intimidation tend to be much worse in areas with lax regulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeerose00 View Post
And I don't favor low cost of living areas. Low COL would be something like Mississippi or Arkansas. You could give me a house and I wouldn't live someplace like that. I'm talking low-ER cost of living. Huge difference.
Which areas were you talking about?

~Cheers
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:40 AM
 
47 posts, read 46,054 times
Reputation: 14
I think it will be much better to understand the importance and the ways tax will be payed. I mean if a person is investing in a property and if suddenly a tax will increase then It will not be that good.
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: New England
8,156 posts, read 12,180,358 times
Reputation: 3151
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGompers View Post
You are still afflicted with "envy of the rich" I could never understand this affliction nor the belief "why tax the rich man, when I may become rich myself someday"
No I'm not. I'm "afflicted" with the love of "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness".

What part of "I don't want to be rich" is not clear? I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGompers View Post
I want everyone to pay their fair amount of taxes. Which the rich for at least the last 10 years have not. I can give you one very simple illustration of this.

The CEO of Apple Steve Jobs is famous for accepting a salary of $1 per year. Now Steve is not poor, so he earns money somehow. How does he earn\receive that money, and what rate is it taxed at? And how much did he pay in social security tax & medicare tax?

I know the answers, but would like to know what you think.
Some anti-rich chart has gotten the left in a tizzy that the "rich" don't pay the same rate as the middle class etc and it's a BIG FAT LIE. Yet, it's perpetuated as truth. You want the truth? Read this link and pay attention to the first table.

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

These are actual figures.

The top 1% 380K+ pay 23.27% Those earning 67K pay 15.68%.

These are end figures, not what's taken out of your check. Don't think for one second that Sally earning 40K is really taxed at 25%. She does not pay 10K in taxes. After her return, it's more like $6100 or about 15%.

Is there the occasional "rich dude" that gets around it? Yea. But the other 99.9% pay more than others.

Facts are facts, and that's them.
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