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Just how many on the "radical right" will classify you as a liberal for not agreeing with their every opinion, I don't think it's fair to use certain adjectives to describe people who question the happenings on Plum Island.
It's like people who question what happened on 9/11 - they aren't conspiracy wingnuts exhibiting "The Paranoid Style", and I appreciate their quest to find out the truth, whatever it may be.
So Interesting, thanks.
So much to contribute here but it all boils down to 1 thing .... 7 BILLION people on Earth. These normal "planet" like disasters wouldn't be so dramatic if there was less human interaction with Earth. It would just be water on land and land moving as usual.. But I guess we needed a Nuclear plant on top of the ring of fire..
Gotta watch the food chain.
Currently Snowing over Japan and the front pushing through is whats pushing the chemicals over the Pacific towards Hawaii. The winds will die down but another front comes through this weekend. Lets hope they can figure something out by this weekend.
Makes you wonder if all those movies came out to prepare us. "The Happening" Mark Walburg comes to mind right away with the wind blowing & the chemicals in the air.
P.S - What happened to H1N1? What a joke .. The threat was real but the creator is not. When did we become so gullable or brainwashed? These are all tests. We're just rats on this planet.
Back to reality for a second... I've had my status under my user name for many months now...keep that in mind.
Shoe Flip: Screw it, let them stay silent about everything (including close call Meteors)..why create a panic?
That's downright scary, and wouldn't be surprised if Plum were responsible for Lyme. But my question is, why would they do that? New vaccines?
Well before I get called a "freak" by others, let me bring you up on hard facts that are not disputed and written by our own government.
The "Godfather" of Plum Island was Erich Traub. A Nazi bio warfare scientist under Hitler. He was brought to the US and set up shop on the Island after WWII. (The idea was that it would be better if we got him instead of Russia - the idea was called "operation paperclip").
What was he working on in Nazi Germany? You guessed it. Infecting ticks and mosquitos with mycoplasma (what lyme disease basically falls under) as stealth soldiers. I find it hard to believe he started brewing lemonade instead once he got here. Especially when when government document list Lyme disease right in line with Anthrax and other biological warfare diseases in their own documentation.
Dr. Donald MacArthur who was in charge of the developement and testing of biological weapons for the Pentagon had this to say at a Hearing before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations in 1969.
"Incapacitating agents are a more recent developement and are largely in the R&D phase (in 1969). In fact the prime emphasis in agent R&D is on developing better incapacitating agents. We are synthesizing new compounds and testing them in animals. I should mention that there is a rule of thumb we use before an agent can be classified as an incapacitant, we feel that the mortality should be very low. Therefore the ratio of the lethal dose to the incapacitating dose has to be very high. Now this is a technical job. We have some of the top scientists in the country working for years on how to get more effective incapacitating agents. It is not easy." He also tells us that an incapacitating agent "imposes a greater logistic burden on the enemy when he has to look after the disabled people."
Here is an interested article about Lyme. The more research on the disease you do, the more it becomes apparent that like AIDS, this hasn't been with us for ages.
Having Lyme has caused me to do tons of research on it. I've changed my mind a bit on the disease over the last couple years. I think I got lucky and it's been wiped out, but some don't seem to be so fortunate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nep321
Yes, I knew about this for years. In fact, I think last summer (or summer 2009), there was a mysterious looking animal that washed up ashore on the CT shoreline. It looked like a vicious seal or something, and people believe it came from Plum Island. In fact, the island is so off limits to the public that boats are not allowed to dock there, even if your boat is in danger and sinking. The island is OFF LIMITS.
Exactly. I don't think people realize just how much HARD CORE crap is out there just a few miles off the shore, and how sloppy the place has been run.
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Originally Posted by Tetto
LOL LOL Now that is funny!! A vicious seal...trying to picture that in my head...!
Seriously though, it shuold be no surprise that we humans are experimenting with things that could kill us.
The guise is that we are creating deadly bio weapons so we can creat scenarios to defend against them. Isn't that sort of like setting yourself on fire to see if you can put the fire out?
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Originally Posted by mlassoff
One of my favorite fiction books is Nelson DeMille's Plum Island. Highly recommended for a fun read: Nelson DeMille - Plum Island
Interesting book, thanks for the link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT
Plum Island is not a secret or part of some kind of conspiracy. It may not be well known but it is not a secret lab. It is well protected because of the work that is done on the island. Would you want this type of research done in your backyard? Also I do not think I would believe Jesse Ventura in much of anything. He is kind of a self promotor if you know what I mean. Anyway I believe there has been talk of closing Plum Island and consolidating its research elsewhere. Not sure if that is happening or not. Jay
Sure Jay...believe that if you wish, but the facts bear out something not so benign. Doctor Roger Breeze (Who oversaw the place) in his OWN WORDS admitted that things are being done there that are not being told such as mutations of zoonotic diseases. Bubonic Plague would be a zoonotic disease for example.
That doesn't bother you?
As for Ventura, eat the meat and spit out the bones. If there is a hard document that says funky things are going on, it doesn't matter if it was delivered by Santa Claus.
So you think the scores of PHd's out there blowing the whistles, the actual whistle BLOWER who work on Plum Island and was fired and then exonerated are all "nuts".
That's nice. Appreciate the comments though, it was very nice of you.
So you think the scores of PHd's out there blowing the whistles, the actual whistle BLOWER who work on Plum Island and was fired and then exonerated are all "nuts".
Actually, I don't doubt that it's something that should be closely monitored. It's the breathless, handwringing tone that troubles me -- in particular, this comment of yours, which tries to link recent "government expansion" (which I know is a constant fixation of yours) with bioweapons research:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello
As for the 9-11 thing, there has been a HUGE expansion by our government to create potential threats...yes, create the problems so they can create "cures".
Bioweapons research has been going on for many, many decades now, and if anything the present situation is far more sane than it was 40-50 years ago. There's certainly a case to be made that it's crazy to genetically engineer nasty stuff so that you can prepare a vaccine in case your foes have invented the same thing.
But your statement goes beyond that, and makes it sound like the government wants to intentionally release pathogens so that we can depend on them for a cure. That's total Art Bell stuff, and gets into conspiracy theory/paranoia territory, IMHO.
I'm not at home and don't have all my references handy, but a few key events come to mind -- for starters, Nixon's moratorium on chemical and biological weapons in 1969 following the Dugway sheep incident (which was a chemical weapons incident in fairness), and the Sverdlovsk anthrax leak in 1979. The U.S. didn't ratify the Geneva convention (or at least the part about biological weapons) until the mid-1970s; before then, biological and chemical weapons were an explicit part of the U.S. arsenal.
So, maybe up until 30-40 years ago, rather than 40-50.
But your statement goes beyond that, and makes it sound like the government wants to intentionally release pathogens so that we can depend on them for a cure. That's total Art Bell stuff, and gets into conspiracy theory/paranoia territory, IMHO.
Not at all, and I'm not sure how you read that into it. The reality is, since 9/11 we have expanded our biolevel 3 and 4 facilities tremendously to the point that we may become the "source" for this evil in the name of defending against it.
I mean, didn't we just bomb the sh*t out of a country for doing the same thing?
And yes, my "fixation" is that of our founders. Limited government, not soley for the reasons stated above, but that's some of the problem. Once these "programs" are in place, fear mongering takes place to keep their "pet" funded and expanding.
Not at all, and I'm not sure how you read that into it. The reality is, since 9/11 we have expanded our biolevel 3 and 4 facilities tremendously to the point that we may become the "source" for this evil in the name of defending against it.
I can't disagree with that, though again I think it's important to keep in mind that this goes back WAY before 9/11. The amount of biological weaponry being produced in the 1950s and 1960s was insane, and though the pathogens may have been somewhat less dangerous, the containment procedures were less well-developed too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello
And yes, my "fixation" is that of our founders. Limited government, not soley for the reasons stated above, but that's some of the problem. Once these "programs" are in place, fear mongering takes place to keep their "pet" funded and expanding.
Then you have common cause with many on the left, who have long protested the insanity of the amount of money allocated to our military -- not least to our programs for developing weapons of mass destruction -- all of which is a perfect example of a solution that goes looking for a problem: if you open a store that sells nothing but hammers, etc.
I can't disagree with that, though again I think it's important to keep in mind that this goes back WAY before 9/11. The amount of biological weaponry being produced in the 1950s and 1960s was insane, and though the pathogens may have been somewhat less dangerous, the containment procedures were less well-developed too.
Oh, I don't disagree. What was done to the Tuskegee Airmen was just flat out wrong on so many levels for instance.
However, you bring up one of the things I have a problem with. Plum Island was part of the containment problem issue and era. The facility has been almost laughbly run.
To have some of the worlds most deadly biological crap - not even allowed on mainland soil, being played with in the most densly populated areas in the country, in one of the oldest facilities in the country is not only irresponsible, it smacks of "you can't make it up". When you add to it conflicting government information released, I don't get the warm fuzzys or believe they are being forthright.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenband
Then you have common cause with many on the left, who have long protested the insanity of the amount of money allocated to our military -- not least to our programs for developing weapons of mass destruction -- all of which is a perfect example of a solution that goes looking for a problem: if you open a store that sells nothing but hammers, etc.
I think this goes beyond "left" and "right". I think it gets into ideologies. The "left" used to be truely liberal...almost what can be considered libertarian. Leave me alone, I'll leave you alone, live free, government out of my life "man". You know.
The problem with the left today IMHO is that the radical progressives have taken hold and hijacked the party. I would agree more with the traditional liberal than not. You should listen to Ron Paul a little closer and I think you'll find he's saying something very similar to what you wrote above.
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