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Old 04-04-2011, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Coastal Connecticut
10,697 posts, read 8,085,386 times
Reputation: 2005

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT View Post
Believe it or not, I-84 west of Hartford is the most traveled road in the state.
Quote:
Originally designed to carry 60,000 vehicles per day (VPD) on the 4-lane sections and 90,000 VPD on the 6-lane portion west of New Haven, the Turnpike carries 75,000-100,000 VPD east of New Haven, and 130,000-200,000 VPD between New Haven and the New York State line as of 2006.

Quote:
According to ConnDOT, I-84 carries approximately 85,000 vehicles per day (AADT) through the Danbury area, rising to 115,000 vehicles per day through the Waterbury area, rising once again to 165,000 vehicles per day through the Hartford area

Pretty close. I know I've lived near both highways, and it always seemed like 95 had more overall volume and congestion between New Haven and Stamford than between Hartford and Danbury. That's just my person observation.
Quote:
In 1997, transportation officials said that I-95 was at 180 percent of the rush hour capacity for which it was designed.

Just for the sake of argument, let's say commuter A commutes from Fairfield to Darien. His office is not near the train station and offers no shuttle. Commuter B commutes from New Britain to Hartford. Despite the fact that FAR more people make a commute similar to A (and contribute far more to the bottom line of the state budget), let's entertain these scenarios. They are close to each other in distance.

Commuter A has only 2 choices in which to get to work. The Merritt Parkway and I-95. Both of which tend to be their worst around Norwalk, and sometimes even from Stamford all the way to the southern part of Bridgeport.

Commuter B on the other hand, can take several routes: 84, backroads, Route 15, even 91. There's usually an OK alternate route available. There are no sufficient rural routes or backroads on the 95 corridor. It's a serious traffic problem that is really holding the state back.

With all due respect, I think it's a ridiculous proposition to do this bus route. It doesn't make sense for a lot of the people that are congesting 84 to go into dumpy New Britain to pick up a bus to Hartford. For one thing, Hartford is not a city like NYC. Offices are all over the place and public transportation is limited and/or unappealing (face it, white collar workers do not like buses). You need a car. Plus, for the time it takes to drive to the bus, get on it, get off it, etc, you might as well have sat in traffic or found an alternate route.

It's insanity spending this kind of money on such a limited impact initiative when there are such dire infrastructure problems in the state.

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Old 04-04-2011, 11:03 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,344 posts, read 13,980,723 times
Reputation: 4265
Lets see what a billion $$$ could buy NJ in the Transit dept , the projects underlined will cost a billion or more , the rest below 40-700 million.... Some of our Rail projects will restore 40-60 miles , and only cost 350 million $$$....and will have more ridership then the New Haven line. Most will come form the Feds , idk how CT is doing it , i would assume the same. But a decent amount will come for Private for New or Upgraded stations and more service. Maybe CT could do the same , some busways will be paided for Privately in this state. Idk what CT is doing wrong but all your projects seem 3x the cost for less then my state , and seem to serve less.... Which pathetic in my opinion your BRT should have higher projected usage then that , the original cost of the Busway was 80 Million , how did it get to 1 billion in 2 decades? Smells like Corruption... The projects Italicized below are costing less then 100 million. We use existing roads and highways for our Busways saving costs... Busways are supposed to cost less then LRT and Regional Rail. NJ has more planned due to the 3 agencies in the state.

New Jersey

Projects to be completed by 2020/2030

New Arrow Fleet
ALP 45DP's
NJ 42/55 Busway
US 1 Busway
US 9 Busway

NJ 4 / 17 Busway
Arrow Refurbishment
Perth Amboy Station upgrade
Wesmont station
More Double Decker cars

Northeast Corridor wire replacement
Raritan Valley line / Northeast Corridor Grade Separation
More Sidings added to the Atlantic , Pascack Valley lines
LED Large Scale Departure boards @ Trenton , Hoboken , Newark , Secaucus
Hawthorne Transit Center

Cross County line
Middlesex - Ocean - Monmouth Rail network
Lackawanna line
West Trenton line
West Trenton Riverline Extension
Hudson Bergen Light Rail > Northern Branch Corridor
Glassboro Light Rail line

Pennsuaken Transit Center
PATH extension to EWR
NJT Hudson Bergen Light Rail 440 Extension
Hoboken Ferry Terminal Overhaul
Hoboken PATH Terminal Overhaul
Linden Station Overhaul
Elizabeth Station Overhaul
Newark Embankment Overhaul
Dock , Delair , PATH Hackensack River Bridge repainting
New Portal Bridge
New Meadowlands Yard
Restoration of Ampere station
Restoration of Harrison Station
Ridgewood station overhaul
Newark Light Rail stations overhaul
Walter Rand Transportation center overhaul
Journal SQ PATH Station Overhaul
Harrison PATH station overhaul

PATH system signal upgrades
PATH Track replacement
PATCO car refurbishment
Franklin SQ PATCO station restoration
PATH PA-5 Full purchase


Vs.


CTDOT Rail / Transit

Projects to be completed by 2020

re-electrification of the Danbury line
Croton / New Haven shop upgrades
New Haven Union station canopy over tracks
System wide PTC ingratiation

M8 Car Purchase
M8 Bar / Cafe Car replacement

More Sidings / Signal upgrades added to the Waterbury / Danbury line
Replacement of the New Haven line's wires , bridges and stations
Downtown Norwalk station
Georgetown Station
West Haven Station
Fairfield Metro Center
East Stamford Station
New Milford Danbury line extension

New Haven Streetcar
New Britain - Hartford Busway
Stamford Streetcar
New Niantic River Bridge
High Level platforms on all Shore line East stations
New Connecticut River Bridge
Extension of Shore line East services to Westerly
3rd Tracking between Palmers - Groton
4 tracking Devon-New Haven

Replacement of Cos-Cob , Walk , Saga , Devon Bridges

Last edited by Nexis4Jersey; 04-04-2011 at 11:17 PM..
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Coastal Connecticut
10,697 posts, read 8,085,386 times
Reputation: 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Lets see what a billion $$$ could buy NJ in the Transit dept , the projects underlined will cost a billion or more , the rest below 40-700 million.... Some of our Rail projects will restore 40-60 miles , and only cost 350 million $$$....and will have more ridership then the New Haven line. Most will come form the Feds , idk how CT is doing it , i would assume the same. But a decent amount will come for Private for New or Upgraded stations and more service. Maybe CT could do the same , some busways will be paided for Privately in this state. Idk what CT is doing wrong but all your projects seem 3x the cost for less then my state , and seem to serve less.... Which pathetic in my opinion your BRT should have higher projected usage then that , the original cost of the Busway was 80 Million , how did it get to 1 billion in 2 decades? Smells like Corruption... The projects Italicized below are costing less then 100 million. We use existing roads and highways for our Busways saving costs... Busways are supposed to cost less then LRT and Regional Rail.
Just look at the federally funded Merritt Parkway project in Fairfield and Trumbull. 4 years, and all they'll have to show for it is a couple small bridges restored, resurfacing (I hope), minor safety improvements and - ooh - landscaping improvement and rustic guardrail restoration. Ugh.

I drive by every morning, notice the gridlock caused by rubberneckers peeking at 5 guys in orange suits making notes or pondering planting trees - and wonder to myself why it's taking so damn long!
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:17 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,344 posts, read 13,980,723 times
Reputation: 4265
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkiv808 View Post
Just look at the federally funded Merritt Parkway project in Fairfield and Trumbull. 4 years, and all they'll have to show for it is a couple small bridges restored, resurfacing (I hope), minor safety improvements and - ooh - landscaping improvement and rustic guardrail restoration. Ugh.

I drive by every morning, notice the gridlock caused by rubberneckers peeking at 5 guys in orange suits making notes or pondering planting trees - and wonder to myself why it's taking so damn long!
4 Years for that , that should only take 8 months....
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:22 AM
 
717 posts, read 613,043 times
Reputation: 336
I'm not really for the busline... but the Gov says that a parallel commuter line between Waterbury and Hartford would also be feasible, and trains are probably the better choice long term. His hands were kind of tied though, the plans for the Busway were already essentially paid for by the Federal Government (a miracle) a left over of G.W. Bush's administration of favouring buses over rail.

Something interesting to the thread:
http://www.courant.com/media/acrobat/2011-04/333532940-04110924.pdf (broken link)

mkiv,

The gridlock on the Merritt has been around since before I was born. The construction now though is mostly fixing the drainage system along the shoulder. That takes a pretty long time to get right.

~Cheers
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Old 04-05-2011, 06:54 AM
 
Location: CT
1,758 posts, read 1,942,589 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT View Post
The New Britain Hartford Busway is a special road for buses only and would be fed by a series of commuter bus networks throughout the communities west of Hartford. It is designed to bypass the grid lock traffic on I-84 each day into and out of Hartford. Someone posted a link here a few weeks ago about this and as it explained it will cut the travel time from New Britain to Hartford in half.

The cost of the busway is a lot less than the other alternatives which would have been in the billions to widen I-84 west of Hartford. Believe it or not, I-84 west of Hartford is the most traveled road in the state.

Many people complain that Hartford does not have mass transit and here is a project that brings mass transit to the city at a reasonable cost (a train would have cost at leat twice that amount) and people are complaining about it.

Also note that the money being allocated to the busway are different funds than would be used for highways. If the busway were not built, the federal share would be spent in a different state on another mass transit project not on highways.

This project has been in the planning stages for 15 years now and to kill it at this time would have been very shortsighted. It will create thousands of construction jobs at a time when they are really needed. Sorry but I think Molloy made a good move supporting the busway. Oh yeah I did vote for him. Too early to say if I regret it or not. Jay
The dazzling new proposed busway has annual operating expenses estimated at $11.1 million, $7.5 million of that subsidized. Thats ridiculous in and of itself. If it's so needed why does it need to be subsidized? How about pouring that $$$ into the I91/I95 interchange in New Haven where 100 lanes of traffic funnel into 1 and creates god awful gridlock.


This state is just ridiculous.
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Old 04-05-2011, 07:00 AM
 
Location: New England
8,156 posts, read 13,093,064 times
Reputation: 3183
Are the feds going to subsidize this white elephant when it can't pay for itself? No. So this is like someone giving you a $700,000 house for $100,000. The catch is you have to pay the taxes and maintaine it. And it's not like Federal money is picked off a tree. (Well then again the fed is pretty much creating money out of thin air.)

84 gridlocked? Come on. That section of 84 is one of the busiest in Hartford for sure...but all that traffic is not going downtown so even if 50% of said commuters were to "bus out" (Good luck), it wouldn't do much for traffic IMO.

Jobs? Well I suppose if you are public sector union worker sure. The rest of us can't get 600' near that thing. Just government feeding the unions which feed the government again.

Edit: Thanks Tetto...I was typing while you replied. lol
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Old 04-05-2011, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Fairfield County, CT
12,056 posts, read 12,850,902 times
Reputation: 3362
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT View Post
The New Britain Hartford Busway is a special road for buses only and would be fed by a series of commuter bus networks throughout the communities west of Hartford. It is designed to bypass the grid lock traffic on I-84 each day into and out of Hartford. Someone posted a link here a few weeks ago about this and as it explained it will cut the travel time from New Britain to Hartford in half.

The cost of the busway is a lot less than the other alternatives which would have been in the billions to widen I-84 west of Hartford (which is laughable). Believe it or not, I-84 west of Hartford is the most traveled road in the state.

Many people complain that Hartford does not have mass transit and here is a project that brings mass transit to the city at a reasonable cost (a train would have cost at leat twice that amount) and people are complaining about it.

Also note that the money being allocated to the busway are different funds than would be used for highways. If the busway were not built, the federal share would be spent in a different state on another mass transit project not on highways.

This project has been in the planning stages for 15 years now and to kill it at this time would have been very shortsighted. It will create thousands of construction jobs at a time when they are really needed. Sorry but I think Molloy made a good move supporting the busway. Oh yeah I did vote for him. Too early to say if I regret it or not. Jay
Sorry but this is so funny. In one argument it's declared that traffic in Hartford is non-existant, and that Connecticut traffic is a joke when compared to the rest of the nation. Now when these same individuals are in full support of spending a billion dollars, traffic is all of a sudden "gridlock".

This is what gets me: the busway will cost less than other alternatives such as widen 84, etc. Duh. So because it's less, we have to spend money on it? And because we already spent 15 million on it, we have to go ahead and spend another 600 million more to not waste tax dollars or be "shortsighted"?

People are not complaining that they are bringing mass transit to the city, nor is anyone saying it's not needed, but in current times, when Connecticut has higher property taxes than California, Connecticut has the highest debt per capita, and the Metro North/95 corridor needs HUGE improvements, we need to fix what's broken.

I-95 during a typical evening commute (taken by DW):



And you're going to argue that 84 is gridlocked?

Last edited by kidyankee764; 04-05-2011 at 07:39 AM..
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Old 04-05-2011, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
14,587 posts, read 23,220,939 times
Reputation: 3244
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkiv808 View Post
Commuter A has only 2 choices in which to get to work. The Merritt Parkway and I-95. Both of which tend to be their worst around Norwalk, and sometimes even from Stamford all the way to the southern part of Bridgeport.

Commuter B on the other hand, can take several routes: 84, backroads, Route 15, even 91. There's usually an OK alternate route available. There are no sufficient rural routes or backroads on the 95 corridor. It's a serious traffic problem that is really holding the state back.
No, Commuter A has three choices. They can also use Metro-North which is an option Commuter B does not have. The busway gives Commuter B a choice like Commuter A. Jay
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Old 04-05-2011, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
14,587 posts, read 23,220,939 times
Reputation: 3244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Lets see what a billion $$$ could buy NJ in the Transit dept , the projects underlined will cost a billion or more , the rest below 40-700 million.... Some of our Rail projects will restore 40-60 miles , and only cost 350 million $$$....and will have more ridership then the New Haven line. Most will come form the Feds , idk how CT is doing it , i would assume the same. But a decent amount will come for Private for New or Upgraded stations and more service. Maybe CT could do the same , some busways will be paided for Privately in this state. Idk what CT is doing wrong but all your projects seem 3x the cost for less then my state , and seem to serve less.... Which pathetic in my opinion your BRT should have higher projected usage then that , the original cost of the Busway was 80 Million , how did it get to 1 billion in 2 decades? Smells like Corruption... The projects Italicized below are costing less then 100 million. We use existing roads and highways for our Busways saving costs... Busways are supposed to cost less then LRT and Regional Rail. NJ has more planned due to the 3 agencies in the state.

New Jersey

Projects to be completed by 2020/2030

New Arrow Fleet
ALP 45DP's
NJ 42/55 Busway
US 1 Busway
US 9 Busway

NJ 4 / 17 Busway
Arrow Refurbishment
Perth Amboy Station upgrade
Wesmont station
More Double Decker cars

Northeast Corridor wire replacement
Raritan Valley line / Northeast Corridor Grade Separation
More Sidings added to the Atlantic , Pascack Valley lines
LED Large Scale Departure boards @ Trenton , Hoboken , Newark , Secaucus
Hawthorne Transit Center

Cross County line
Middlesex - Ocean - Monmouth Rail network
Lackawanna line
West Trenton line
West Trenton Riverline Extension
Hudson Bergen Light Rail > Northern Branch Corridor
Glassboro Light Rail line

Pennsuaken Transit Center
PATH extension to EWR
NJT Hudson Bergen Light Rail 440 Extension
Hoboken Ferry Terminal Overhaul
Hoboken PATH Terminal Overhaul
Linden Station Overhaul
Elizabeth Station Overhaul
Newark Embankment Overhaul
Dock , Delair , PATH Hackensack River Bridge repainting
New Portal Bridge
New Meadowlands Yard
Restoration of Ampere station
Restoration of Harrison Station
Ridgewood station overhaul
Newark Light Rail stations overhaul
Walter Rand Transportation center overhaul
Journal SQ PATH Station Overhaul
Harrison PATH station overhaul

PATH system signal upgrades
PATH Track replacement
PATCO car refurbishment
Franklin SQ PATCO station restoration
PATH PA-5 Full purchase


Vs.


CTDOT Rail / Transit

Projects to be completed by 2020

re-electrification of the Danbury line
Croton / New Haven shop upgrades
New Haven Union station canopy over tracks
System wide PTC ingratiation

M8 Car Purchase
M8 Bar / Cafe Car replacement

More Sidings / Signal upgrades added to the Waterbury / Danbury line
Replacement of the New Haven line's wires , bridges and stations
Downtown Norwalk station
Georgetown Station
West Haven Station
Fairfield Metro Center
East Stamford Station
New Milford Danbury line extension

New Haven Streetcar
New Britain - Hartford Busway
Stamford Streetcar
New Niantic River Bridge
High Level platforms on all Shore line East stations
New Connecticut River Bridge
Extension of Shore line East services to Westerly
3rd Tracking between Palmers - Groton
4 tracking Devon-New Haven

Replacement of Cos-Cob , Walk , Saga , Devon Bridges
First of all, where did you get that the busway is costing $1 billion. It is not. The current estimate is $572 million. Also I am not sure why you think the price was originally $80 million. As long as I have known about this project it has been much higher. In 2004 it was $160 million but it did not include many of the items found to be required as the project went through design. This includes things Amtrak required like the major bridge over the busway and Amtrak tracks at Flatbush Avenue. That bridge not only serves the busway but eliminates a problematic at grade railroad crossing and added significantly to the project cost.

Second, Connecticut does not have the network of rail lines that New Jersey has. In NJ, the rail lines were not abandoned like many were in the Hartford region. It costs a lot more to rebuild an abandoned rail line than just some minor upgrades. So you really can not make some of the comparisons you are claiming are valid. They are not.

As for your accusations of corruption, I would like to know what you base this on. Please provide us with facts not just alluding to your suspicions. Jay
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