[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by JViello

And if you can't see the difference in product between that Chinese sh*t and what you get from Weather Tech you're blind. People are buying his product because it's not Chinese sh*t.

Get it? We can manufacture here. We CAN manufacture quality products that people will buy and will support decent wages. Italy and Germany do.

I actually paid a premium for a ride on excavator toy for my son because it was made in Germany. The quality is fantastic, it works like it's supposed to and it won't break in 2 weeks. I had it with the Chinese crap and there was no US option.

What do you think the future of America is...data programming? Please, the Asians already blew that market out. Products like iPhones? Made in China.

What do you think is driving all those modern Chinese cities and creating such wealth in their country? The tech sector? Software? Hell no, it's manufacturing. They take raw materials and turn it into something of value...and sell it to us.

Look around your apartment and see just how much of what you have is made in China. Go ahead. That's your money going to a foreign land.

BTW Trump thinks China is a problem for us as well...I guess you've got better business acumen than him.

Here you go buddy, this is what manufacturing has built in China:

I have zero respect for Trump-- He has made a giant ass of himself lately. And he never showed his financial records-- as promised if Obama showed the long form of his birth certificate. I am pretty sure I could keep my daddy's $600 million in-tact without bankrupting two casinos, an airline and three REITS along the way. Every company I have worked for, or been an executive in or even the one I was the CEO of continues to succeed today and has never been bankrupt, so I can make a good argument that I have more business acumen than trump. I just didn't have the $600 million start. I, unlike Trump, am also not a buffoon.

That having been said, I find it highly ironic, that you would extoll the virtues of China, since it's mostly our outsourcing of manufacturing that has led to their economic growth. By the way, the poverty line in China is $1.25 a day income. Sound good to you?

And yes, the American future lies in R & D, software and algorithm development, hardware engineering, and drug research, and HIGH TECH skilled manufacturing. If you think our future is based on manufacturing textiles, hammers, or clothespins, you are going to be very disappointed.

[jane_sm1th73]

mlassoff, Software development is one of those skilz that requires only a desk and a computer. OK, and a couple of like minded buddies. These days, it takes very little beyond yer STEM background to become a skilled software developer, thanks to ORBs and object libraries. (I have a very good one who was recently a social worker.) So, if you have your own SW development company, and moved to CT for reasons of your own, you have a great deal of say in the matter, and more power to you. But for big firms with lots of programmers, all of the software can be spec'd as modules (as you know), and OUTSOURCED. Again, if you are PIXAR-like, own your niche, and own your company, more power to you. But the majority of software developers do not own their own firms, and do not have a monopoly niche, and are subject to having their work virtualize to India, or to a location with a critical mass of programmers and vitality in the air.

As for being mean spirited, you are welcome to your opinion. i calls it like I sees it. I lived in CT for over fifteen years as a STEM professional. As a geek, I read avidly, analyze the numbers, and keep track of changes. I left because I had studied the numbers long enough that I could no longer deny what they meant. I would have preferred to avoid the dislocation of moving, but I wasn't going to lie to the mirror.

You called it correctly that I am anti union. I am for merit based prosperity and freedom of movement for all. In a diversified economy that has vitality, overpaid management will be canned (and they have been - I was in CT in the early 90s when, over a period of two years, GE/IBM collectively laid off 110,000 middle managers in the tri-state area, and GTE got the heck out of Dodge (Stamford) and moved to Texas. CT never recovered from that glut of unemployed middle managers). Likewise, resentful hourly workers with an attitude will be canned. It is only when the economy becomes a monoculture and constricts that THERE IS NOWHERE TO RUN. This is CT's situation now.

As for the teachers, I'm not going to parse nationwide SAT/ACT scores, and I'm not even going to go point by point down the other objective indicators. There's lots that is published. For me, the acid test is "how many out of state US citizen kids want to go to your state university?" There are few US citizen applicants from out of state applying to the CT state university system (go ahead - call up the admissions office! Make sure you specify "US Citizen"). By way of contrast, the top 25 public colleges and universities, in other states, have significant numbers of US Citizen out of state applicants. The numbers are no secret. US News and World Report just came out with its 2011 numbers.

I will agree that there are lots of jobs in CT. There may even be lots of OPEN jobs in CT. But there are not enough of the right kinds of open jobs for the people who don't have jobs, and there may not be enough of the right kinds of workers to take the jobs that are open. The $40K job that doesn't get a single qualified applicant in CT may get 100 qualified applicants in Columbia, Austin, or Seattle. So, saying there are a lot of jobs in CT is not saying enough.

BTW, "manufacturing hourly jobs" are not necessarily synonymous with "union jobs". i have consulted in many non-union manufacturing companies. I have likewise consulted in many unionized manufacturing plants. Guess which ones had more vitality? Energy? Genuine consideration for quality? I have not ONCE been to a state agency where the workforce was not unionized. Consider the DMV in Norwalk, Danbury, or ANY DMV in CT. I don't think even YOU would characterize the workforce as energized and customer service oriented. Contrast that to ANY Enterprise rent-a-car - where, by the way, the regular joes are also on salary, but NON unionized, so it is a fair comparison to DMV. Enough said.


Again, I'm glad you are doing well, and hope you continue to prosper. If you are not completely in control of your own destiny, I would advise you to keep six months of expenses in the bank so you can get out alive, if and when you need to.

[bobtn]

mlassoff, GE is insourcing production of its products from China to NY. Americans will be making products in a manufacturing plant in upstate NY formerly made in China. We have done the same thing here, repeatedly.

Cuomo is bent on reducing NY taxation to make it competitive, if contagious, perhaps Malloy should be chained to him.

[Beeker2211]

JV,

Tetto is absolutely right, there are a lot of factors going into factory placement now. For a few decades outsourcing labour seemed like the garden of eden to corporate America: low wages and no unions to speak of. There were always problems, and now some of those problems are coming to ahead, especially in China. Seconds is probably one the biggest issue right now, shipping unusable goods that to has to be either shipped back or discarded. Another is erratic timelines, lack of good copyright protections, rising shipping costs, steeply rising labour costs, etc. Manufacturing will probably stay in China, but their main export market might become Africa honestly.

~Cheers

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Beeker2211

JV,

Tetto is absolutely right, there are a lot of factors going into factory placement now. For a few decades outsourcing labour seemed like the garden of eden to corporate America: low wages and no unions to speak of. There were always problems, and now some of those problems are coming to ahead, especially in China. Seconds is probably one the biggest issue right now, shipping unusable goods that to has to be either shipped back or discarded. Another is erratic timelines, lack of good copyright protections, rising shipping costs, steeply rising labour costs, etc. Manufacturing will probably stay in China, but their main export market might become Africa honestly.

~Cheers

Boy, I sure hope so!

Does that necessarily mean that the manufacturing will come back here-- Beyond niche manufacturing that JViello described...

[bobtn]

Excellent points in post 48, JViello.

Again GE looked at NY and NY found a way to make it happen. NY has even added jobs since 1990 before this, to boot.

GE indicated they and others will most likely bring manufacturing back here, but cost of doing business, and business-friendliness will be the keys. If Mario were the Cuomo in office, with his uber left attitude, you can bet a different state would win. This Cuomo, like Christie, is attempting to correct the awful policies of their predecessors. MY area twice was named Relocation Region of the Nation in 10 years, and it was largely the work of the ex-Nashville mayor, than Tn governor, a very pro-business, low tax Democrat..who actually had all his pre gov't experience in developing businesses. If the governor of any state does not lead the way to creating a pro-business environment, it does not happen, and the other states say "Great..one less competitor".

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by bobtn

Excellent poiints in post 48, JViello.

Again GE looked at NY and NY found a way to make it happen. NY has even added jobs since 1990 before this, to boot.

New York? Can't be true. They have had Democratic governors, a high tax structure and embedded, powerful unions.

[bobtn]

And now they have a Dem bent on lowering the cost associated with government..who the unions despise. He has been considering axing 10-15,000 state employees. Only 8 percent of private sector is unionized; pubic unions have little power left. The public polls on them are as bad as Congresses.

Here is the link to the NY GE job creation story:

http://www.manufacturing.net/GE-Addi...spx?menuid=276

[Beeker2211]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Boy, I sure hope so!

Does that necessarily mean that the manufacturing will come back here-- Beyond niche manufacturing that JViello described...

To the US? Probably. To CT? Probably as well with a lot of caveats. Electricity costs come to mind. And if we can make brownfields here comparable in time and cost to develop as greenfields in other parts of the country we'd be at a relative advantage with the multitude of transport options and an entrenched educated workforce.

Niche manufacturing to consumers is important, but just how the trends are going order-to-build manufacturing to the commercial sectors looks like CT's best manufacturing bet. There's already huge amounts of infrastructure and support industry to expand that here.

~Cheers

[Metsfan53]

[quote=jane_sm1th73;19647762] For me, the acid test is "how many out of state US citizen kids want to go to your state university?" There are few US citizen applicants from out of state applying to the CT state university system (go ahead - call up the admissions office! Make sure you specify "US Citizen"). By way of contrast, the top 25 public colleges and universities, in other states, have significant numbers of US Citizen out of state applicants. The numbers are no secret. US News and World Report just came out with its 2011 numbers.



This might be the most arbitrary measurement I've ever seen in relation to education. CT is known for having excelent schools- one of the many reasons I'm looking to move there.

Since UVA & UT are two of the best public universities in the US- that means Texas and Virginia have the best public education programs in the country? I would venture to guess that if most of CT's top students weren't attending Ivies/little Ivies/other top liberal arts schools, which are all in close proximity, UConn would see a significant increase in stature; whereas the Texas/Virginia student only has a small number of nearby schools to chose from. I also think athletics & weather might have something to do with it.

I just fail to see the logic in connecting elementray/secondary educational with the reputation of the state's public university.

Also- California has the best public University system in the US- and that state is full of regulations and taxation.