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Old 11-22-2011, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
1,031 posts, read 2,050,346 times
Reputation: 729

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
I used to be poor.
So did I and the government didn't help get me where I am today.

You can't directly blame the President for your success or non-success, but you can blame the House and the Senate for instilling policies that put companies out of work. I could care less who becomes President (with the exception of Paul) as long as whoever our next reps are vote to cut spending across the board and don't add massively to the federal income tax. New England will vote blue in 2012 (with the possible exception of NH) but I'm hoping they'll vote red or at least "moderate blue" for representatives.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:21 PM
 
1,134 posts, read 1,183,153 times
Reputation: 893
I guess I'll go ahead and be controversial and say we'd be in exactly the same place we are now regardless of who was president, or who was in Congress.

Call it cynical, but I've come to the conclusion that in this globalized economy and globalized culture, there are no entities that can have much of an impact on the direction the country goes in at any one time. Trying to make any kind of generalized statement about trajectory over decades, with respect to a political party or the political class, necessarily requires far too many inputs and far too many caveats to end up with a pat answer or pat solution.

Blaming the other side for policies is just a waste of breath.. I just hold on for the ride and do the best I can.

Since the day after this country was founded, there have been people saying it was on the verge of collapse - morally, financially, any way you can think of. They said it about the folly of taking on the british, about forming a central bank in the 1790s, about expanding into the west, about abandoning slavery, about letting women vote, about getting involved in ww1 and ww2, about developing vaccines, about having income tax... the list is endless. We've always been supposedly facing an existential crisis. Guess what, we're still here after all that.

Does that mean put your head in the sand and assume we're invincible? No. But the folly of those screaming at the top of their lungs about every miniscule perceived governmental bungling, or slight in a political speech, is that when the time comes that the country may need to pay attention to a genuine emergency, everyone's been desensitized. This is a populace and a political class right now who utterly fail at the notion of 'picking your battles'. Whether it's over protective parents or dug-in partisans.. angry web commenters.. people have lost all perspective.

A part of me sometimes wants something genuinely horrible to happen to snap people out of it.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Live in NY State, work in CT
8,836 posts, read 14,256,851 times
Reputation: 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
I guess I'll go ahead and be controversial and say we'd be in exactly the same place we are now regardless of who was president, or who was in Congress.

Call it cynical, but I've come to the conclusion that in this globalized economy and globalized culture, there are no entities that can have much of an impact on the direction the country goes in at any one time. Trying to make any kind of generalized statement about trajectory over decades, with respect to a political party or the political class, necessarily requires far too many inputs and far too many caveats to end up with a pat answer or pat solution.

Blaming the other side for policies is just a waste of breath.. I just hold on for the ride and do the best I can.

Since the day after this country was founded, there have been people saying it was on the verge of collapse - morally, financially, any way you can think of. They said it about the folly of taking on the british, about forming a central bank in the 1790s, about expanding into the west, about abandoning slavery, about letting women vote, about getting involved in ww1 and ww2, about developing vaccines, about having income tax... the list is endless. We've always been supposedly facing an existential crisis. Guess what, we're still here after all that.

Does that mean put your head in the sand and assume we're invincible? No. But the folly of those screaming at the top of their lungs about every miniscule perceived governmental bungling, or slight in a political speech, is that when the time comes that the country may need to pay attention to a genuine emergency, everyone's been desensitized. This is a populace and a political class right now who utterly fail at the notion of 'picking your battles'. Whether it's over protective parents or dug-in partisans.. angry web commenters.. people have lost all perspective.

A part of me sometimes wants something genuinely horrible to happen to snap people out of it.
I mostly agree with this, and think this will be true whether Obama or whoever is his opponent is president on Jan 20, 2013; but I think the difference today is the speed of which information travels and the anonymounity of forums, etc. causes a sharp degree of rhetoric and polarization that has rarely been seen in modern times (only the 60s perhaps remotely compares.....going to pre-modern of course slavery/the Civil War).

Unlike past times, because of the speed of change today, we can hardly afford to be this deadlocked in society. On WCBS NewsRadio 88 they had Hungerthon yesterday and the person who founded it noted that he never thought he'd see the most poor/hungry people in this country TODAY, as opposed to when he started his charity in the 60s. Now I think a lot of this is true and some of this is this kind of rhetoric to get more donations, etc. But while there were other "impossible times" (even somewhat recent, think back for those old enough to late 70s stagflation with the super high mortgage rates), I think these times are a bit more dangerous and prone to anger. It seems a lot like the late 1800s "Gilded Age" when people rioted in the streets and employers overly said, "let them eat cake" or even "just die off there's plenty of others to be exploited" (not all, but too many).
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:26 AM
 
Location: New England
935 posts, read 1,394,599 times
Reputation: 698
14 Trillion dollars in debt is not an imaginary crisis. the fact that every american citizen owes $47,000 due to our elected officials being unable to simply balance a budget, something that the vast majority of americans are able to do, means we need to overthrow the political class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
I guess I'll go ahead and be controversial and say we'd be in exactly the same place we are now regardless of who was president, or who was in Congress.

Call it cynical, but I've come to the conclusion that in this globalized economy and globalized culture, there are no entities that can have much of an impact on the direction the country goes in at any one time. Trying to make any kind of generalized statement about trajectory over decades, with respect to a political party or the political class, necessarily requires far too many inputs and far too many caveats to end up with a pat answer or pat solution.

Blaming the other side for policies is just a waste of breath.. I just hold on for the ride and do the best I can.

Since the day after this country was founded, there have been people saying it was on the verge of collapse - morally, financially, any way you can think of. They said it about the folly of taking on the british, about forming a central bank in the 1790s, about expanding into the west, about abandoning slavery, about letting women vote, about getting involved in ww1 and ww2, about developing vaccines, about having income tax... the list is endless. We've always been supposedly facing an existential crisis. Guess what, we're still here after all that.

Does that mean put your head in the sand and assume we're invincible? No. But the folly of those screaming at the top of their lungs about every miniscule perceived governmental bungling, or slight in a political speech, is that when the time comes that the country may need to pay attention to a genuine emergency, everyone's been desensitized. This is a populace and a political class right now who utterly fail at the notion of 'picking your battles'. Whether it's over protective parents or dug-in partisans.. angry web commenters.. people have lost all perspective.

A part of me sometimes wants something genuinely horrible to happen to snap people out of it.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,400 posts, read 8,362,888 times
Reputation: 7681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpierpont View Post
Win or lose nationally do you think he'll replicate this map in New England?



On a side note I never knew he so thoroughly dominated New England.

Russian Reporter Gives Obama The Middle Finger - YouTube Here is one for you Barry.
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