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Old 12-06-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: New England
8,156 posts, read 13,093,064 times
Reputation: 3183

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Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
Now personally I've never seen what good governing qualities anyone has ever seen in DeStephano. It's beyond me why he keeps getting elected. Bad enough that there is no competition from the other party or from his own. No one from either party seems to be able to mount a successful campaign against him. Rather than a two party system, it's a one man show in New Haven- ugh.

But for those who keep talking about having a Republican in office -- Just how is that going to help the violence ? What miracle is supposed to happen with a Rep. mayor ? You think the gang bangers are suddenly going to see the light and behave themselves because there's a Republican mayor.

Tougher on crime ? You still have to find the perpetrators, still have to have make the charges stick, still have to convict them. Still have to change the gang mindset in prison and afterwards. Just having a Republican mayor in office is not going to make that happen in a " no snitchin". culture. Longer prison sentences ? There is always another younger, even meaner gang banger right behind those that get sent away.

There are really no quick and simple solutions in New Haven. The problems are beyond one man fixing them IMHO.
Look what one man did in NYC. (Guiliani)
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Coastal Connecticut
10,692 posts, read 8,085,386 times
Reputation: 2002
Get tougher on illegal guns, illegal immigrants, patrol the **** out of the streets, get the cops involved with the community, push for more jobs, more random DUI checks, etc.

They can do more. Maybe one person can't solve the problems, but this one administration isn't doing s#!t.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:58 AM
 
670 posts, read 660,098 times
Reputation: 231
Gangs and drug violence will proliferate until the young people in the area feel that they can have a better life doing something else. If they can make more money dropping out of school and selling drugs, they'll do that. The frontal lobe doesn't fully develop until the early to mid 20s, at which point a person could really measure the pros and cons of being a gang member. And by that point, a lot of gang members are dead, hurt, or in jail.

Gotta start from the beginning.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:30 AM
 
462 posts, read 359,583 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lintu View Post
Gangs and drug violence will proliferate until the young people in the area feel that they can have a better life doing something else. If they can make more money dropping out of school and selling drugs, they'll do that. The frontal lobe doesn't fully develop until the early to mid 20s, at which point a person could really measure the pros and cons of being a gang member. And by that point, a lot of gang members are dead, hurt, or in jail.

Gotta start from the beginning.
Again, not very realistic. There will NEVER be a path that's more profitable at that age than selling drugs. This isn't even limited to inner cities. I went to a private school in NJ full of upper middle class kids some of which sold drugs. Why? Because it paid better than what their parents were giving them, or what they could make at that age selling sporting good, or waiting tables. Now, they were able to stay out of gangs, because they weren't as worried about protection. Whereas the inner city kid has that need. The root cause is greed, and greed is inherent in humans. We want stuff now, and we do whatever it takes to get there. A kid who watches his family/friends die before they reach 30, isn't going to wait until he's 25 before he can buy a nice car. It's a grim reality, but you can not fix this problem. You can only contain it by throwing money and police at it. And by being VERY harsh on the ones you catch.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:36 AM
 
670 posts, read 660,098 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTJayC View Post
Again, not very realistic. There will NEVER be a path that's more profitable at that age than selling drugs. This isn't even limited to inner cities. I went to a private school in NJ full of upper middle class kids some of which sold drugs. Why? Because it paid better than what their parents were giving them, or what they could make at that age selling sporting good, or waiting tables. Now, they were able to stay out of gangs, because they weren't as worried about protection. Whereas the inner city kid has that need. The root cause is greed, and greed is inherent in humans. We want stuff now, and we do whatever it takes to get there. A kid who watches his family/friends die before they reach 30, isn't going to wait until he's 25 before he can buy a nice car. It's a grim reality, but you can not fix this problem. You can only contain it by throwing money and police at it. And by being VERY harsh on the ones you catch.
There may not be a more profitable path, but I do feel that at some point you can convince people (if you start from the beginning) that getting an education and then a real job is the better long term plan.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: CT
1,758 posts, read 1,942,589 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTJayC View Post
Again, not very realistic. There will NEVER be a path that's more profitable at that age than selling drugs. This isn't even limited to inner cities. I went to a private school in NJ full of upper middle class kids some of which sold drugs. Why? Because it paid better than what their parents were giving them, or what they could make at that age selling sporting good, or waiting tables. Now, they were able to stay out of gangs, because they weren't as worried about protection. Whereas the inner city kid has that need. The root cause is greed, and greed is inherent in humans. We want stuff now, and we do whatever it takes to get there. A kid who watches his family/friends die before they reach 30, isn't going to wait until he's 25 before he can buy a nice car. It's a grim reality, but you can not fix this problem. You can only contain it by throwing money and police at it. And by being VERY harsh on the ones you catch.
I have to agree with this; the touchy feely, lets help them transition into normal society thing is bunk. They could care less about that, they're thugs and want what they want RIGHT NOW. These people deserve what they get; shot by other gang members, the cops, or citizens protecting themselves and family. A good long stay in the federal pen would help too. Time to take the gloves off.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:43 AM
 
Location: CT
1,758 posts, read 1,942,589 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lintu View Post
There may not be a more profitable path, but I do feel that at some point you can convince people (if you start from the beginning) that getting an education and then a real job is the better long term plan.
I would agree with this if you could seize the child the second it is born and put it into positive surroundings. But other than that, its pretty hopeless I think.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:15 PM
 
670 posts, read 660,098 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetto View Post
I have to agree with this; the touchy feely, lets help them transition into normal society thing is bunk. They could care less about that, they're thugs and want what they want RIGHT NOW. These people deserve what they get; shot by other gang members, the cops, or citizens protecting themselves and family. A good long stay in the federal pen would help too. Time to take the gloves off.
Except that good long stays in the federal pen cost the taxpayers a ton of money :/ I often feel like there's no real solution.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:26 PM
 
3,603 posts, read 3,274,009 times
Reputation: 7534
Guliani ? We have to remember that crime was going down rapidly across the country at the same time he was Mayor. All major cities saw drastic crime reductions during his tenure. NYC crime reductions actually started a few years earlier under Mayor Dinkins, then continued under Guliani. It was also Dinkin's office which won the federal grant for 7,000 more police officers which went into effect as Guliani began his tenure.

Also during those years ( the Bill Clinton Presidency ) there were much better economic times and high employment. It's always been a question as to what effect that had on large city crime rates, all of which were plummeting.

Guliani was an interesting character as he ran and won under both the Republican and Liberal ticket. Figure that one out. He was famously pro illegal immigrants. In fact it was his policy that the police and city agencies could not contact the then INS ( now ICE) over illegal immigrants. His thought was that if people were afraid to go to the cops, then crime would stay unsolved and could even increase. He also put into efffect one of the country's first domestic partnership laws for city employees.

However, that's NYC and we're talking about New Haven. For New Haven there seem to be no ready solutions. Perhaps as others have suggested, just trying to keep the lid on it may be the best anyone can hope for.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:37 PM
 
Location: W Hartford, CT
1,315 posts, read 2,017,321 times
Reputation: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind
New Haven has so much going for it- hospitals, universities, culture, restaurant/bar scene, waterfront, wonderful,close knit neighborhoods. And yet it is marred by those certain areas where most of the violence happens.

Even in those areas, church presence is strong and many residents work for the betterment of the area. Worst thing is, you expect those dreadful crime numbers to happen in places that look like the south Bronx, with crumbing high rise tenements and nary a tree in sight. Many of New Haven's worst neighborhoods are 2-3 family homes on leafy, tree lined streets. If you didn't know how dangerous certain areas are you would never guess just by looking.
You see the same thing in Hartford's North End - older mutli-family houses, a few older, brick apartment buildings - along with barrack-style housing projects and cheap ghetto stores. A very dangerous area that used to be a decent place until suburban flight set in. Ironically, in neighboring suburbs you have duplexes and apartments as well, but without the crime or urban ills (as well as public housing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTJayC
There will NEVER be a path that's more profitable at that age than selling drugs. This isn't even limited to inner cities. I went to a private school in NJ full of upper middle class kids some of which sold drugs. Why? Because it paid better than what their parents were giving them, or what they could make at that age selling sporting good, or waiting tables.
I don't doubt this atall. UHart is notorious for this among undergraduates. Couple of years ago a few students reported being robbed at gunpoint where they were staying in nearby Bloomfield on 189. Eventually the cops caught the robber and arrested him - and the students, who it was discovered were dealing cocaine out of the house and owed this guy money. But the UHart kids called the police anyway, who came to the house and found drugs, contraband and a wad of cash. You're right that there's a lot of greed out there, but also alot of arrogance - which seems to be a virtue among young people today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind
Guliani ? We have to remember that crime was going down rapidly across the country at the same time he was Mayor. All major cities saw drastic crime reductions during his tenure. NYC crime reductions actually started a few years earlier under Mayor Dinkins, then continued under Guliani. It was also Dinkin's office which won the federal grant for 7,000 more police officers which went into effect as Guliani began his tenure
Well, Giuliani was WAY better a mayor than Dinkins. The city had record homicide numbers when he was mayor in the early '90s. Some of this was due to the crack epidemic, which hit the city hard, but alot of it was just due to an upswing in city crime. I agree the economy was improving by the time Rudy got into office, but he did implement major changes, similar to ones that previous mayors had done (like Koch) to address quality of life issues. He was a big supporter of the broken window theory - which supports the claim that broken windows in vacant or abandoned buildings invites criminal behavior. (That seems like a no-brainer, but he was one of the first to address this and the city's better for him doing so.) I disagree that he alone was the reason the city turned around, and that his political party had anything to do with it, but he did usher in some much-needed change. If a city's going to turn around, the mayor can only do so much. Unless attitudes start to change among citizens, tough talk from city hall will only fall on deaf ears. That's key. And unless that happens in New Haven, its crime rate will continue to be comparable to Mott Haven (in the South Bronx.)
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