[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Sigequinox

Like the one Obama tasked the CDC to perform on guns after SH? The one you haven't heard about from him or the news because the results showed that the gun control policies proposed WOULD NOT result in a decrease in mass murder or crime?
CDC Gun Research Backfires on Obama - Guns & Ammo
First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws

Or the similar 2007 study from Harvard that showed the exact same thing?
Harvard Study: No Correlation Between Gun Control and Less Violent Crime

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Fbl8QqcwRwqxpQ

So what would you do then?

[Sigequinox]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

So 20 first graders and 6 teachers isn't enough to get on your radar?

It absolutely is, but I think there is more than enough evidence to tell us we need mental health reform, not gun control reform. It's also a given to any person knowledgeable about guns that the laws will not prevent another SH, so my point was to see what it would even do for day-to-day crime, which is unfortunately nothing again.

Even if these magical laws could prevent all gun crime, it would do nothing to stop violence (which is the real common denominator)

mass stabbing, 28 kindergarten children and 3 adults in China
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/wo...hina.html?_r=0

this happened the day of SH, 22 children stabbed
Man Stabs 22 Children at China Primary School

school bombings
Category:School bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the problem is we live in a violent culture. If you think blaming an inanimate object is going to change our societies predilection for violence, well, I think your wrong and that's confirmed by studies.

[Sigequinox]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

So what would you do then?

The first thing I would do is task world class researchers to perform studies that investigate what the cultural elements of violence are. Why is the US (which is actually in the middle on the peace index FWIW), Russia, Mexico Pakistan etc so violent, and why Canada, Sweden, Switzerland etc are so peaceful. (Btw Sweden, Finland and Switzerland have the top peace index AND some of the highest rates of civilian gun ownership in the world)

I would hope that we could develop ways to replicate what these other cultures do to produce a citizenry with so little hate.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Sigequinox

mass stabbing, 28 kindergarten children and 3 adults in China
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/wo...hina.html?_r=0

How many of them died?

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Sigequinox

The first thing I would do is task world class researchers to perform studies that investigate what the cultural elements of violence are. Why is the US (which is actually in the middle on the peace index FWIW), Russia, Mexico Pakistan etc so violent, and why Canada, Sweden, Switzerland etc are so peaceful. (Btw Sweden, Finland and Switzerland have the top peace index AND some of the highest rates of civilian gun ownership in the world)

I would hope that we could develop ways to replicate what these other cultures do to produce a citizenry with so little hate.

Fine, and then what?

First you were saying mental illness is the problem... Now it's "hate".

BTW, all the "peaceful" countries you are mentioning have very lax prison systems and sentencing, a generally unreligious and unchurched citizenry, and universal health care. They also have per capita less than half the gun ownership of the us.

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Sigequinox]

Originally Posted by chelseagiel69

Well for one in-depth psychological testing upon purchase of a gun,and testing and profiling for all members of household where gun would reside. Maybe something that gun owner could sign like a contract of sorts to be sure it would never get into the wrong hands and would be kept in a locked safe.

Should the same be done to practice the Koran?

ANd would lanza have not done what he did because he put his signature on a piece of paper? I don't follow how this prevents anything.

[davwve]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

BTW, all the "peaceful" countries you are mentioning have very lax prison systems and sentencing, a generally unreligious and unchurched citizenry, and universal health care. They also have per capita less than half the gun ownership of the us.

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They also have or had mandatory army service for males.

[Sigequinox]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Fine, and then what?

First you were saying mental illness is the problem... Now it's "hate".

BTW, all the "peaceful" countries you are mentioning have very lax prison systems and sentencing, a generally unreligious and unchurched citizenry, and universal health care. They also have per capita less than half the gun ownership of the us.

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not going to link you to the gun research again. It already compared it to these countries as well as others and determined it not to be successful..

I never said I abandon mental illness as a problem. thanks for putting words in my mouth. Yes, mental health. Yes hate. Yes, violence. I don't know which of the above mentioned categories are relevant, I haven't seen studies yet. If the study claimed with conviction that universal healthcare was the answer I would support it tomorrow. Not sure if your comment about religion in those countries are fact or not, but I'm not sure what the relevance is. I didn't mention religion at all. I'm not going to re-read my posts, but as a non religious person I know for fact I didn't make any reference.

Their prison systems are lax on BS laws we take seriously here like drug possession. Are you implying letting violent criminals out early is either a solution or not relevant? That would be insane. Yes, lets let rapists out early and those who commit aggravated assault our early and take the one equalizing factor and ban it. That makes a lot of sense.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Sigequinox

I'm not going to link you to the gun research again. It already compared it to these countries as well as others and determined it not to be successful..

I never said I abandon mental illness as a problem. thanks for putting words in my mouth. Yes, mental health. Yes hate. Yes, violence. I don't know which of the above mentioned categories are relevant, I haven't seen studies yet. If the study claimed with conviction that universal healthcare was the answer I would support it tomorrow. Not sure if your comment about religion in those countries are fact or not, but I'm not sure what the relevance is. I didn't mention religion at all. I'm not going to re-read my posts, but as a non religious person I know for fact I didn't make any reference.

Their prison systems are lax on BS laws we take seriously here like drug possession. Are you implying letting violent criminals out early is either a solution or not relevant? That would be insane. Yes, lets let rapists out early and those who commit aggravated assault our early and take the one equalizing factor and ban it. That makes a lot of sense.

I really don't understand your answer.

The countries you cited are examples of ultra-liberal social environments... It seems that adopting the systems of those countries would be unpopular with the same conservative base that wants to avoid gun controls.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by davwve

They also have or had mandatory army service for males.

That's a good point. Unworkable here, but, I'm sure that discipline and actual professional level firearms training has an impact.