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I think SW CT has enough wealth for two successful urban malls. Shouldn't be a problem.
If anything, the immediate region is under-retailed. You have one of the wealthiest places on the planet, and there's no Saks, no Neiman Marcus, no Nordstrom. Many of the high-end stores typical in Manhattan, Short Hills, the Westchester, North Shore of LI, aren't in Fairfield.
I mean, I go to relatives in Detroit and they have all these stores in the suburbs. I think if suburban Detroit can handle Saks, Neiman Marcus, and three Nordstroms, SW CT, one of the wealth centers of the planet, can do the same. Even suburban Cleveland has these stores.
Heck, there are like four malls in Paramus, NJ, and they all do well. And SW CT has even better demographics than North Jersey.
Reason: CT residents don't like change. Zoning is strict to favor quaint business districts over large sprawling shopping malls. We do have them, just less common than other similarly affluent areas.
Actually the per capita in Stamford is $46,901* and Norwalk is $39,321* which isn't too shabby either. I think there are a lot of single young professionals from NYC buying and renting in downtown Stamford (near the mall) which is pushing lower income Stamford residents to South Norwalk and Bridgeport. I think the people with the higher incomes are in the northern part of Norwalk and not in South Norwalk where the mall will be.
*from City-Data
Why does everything have to be an HHI comparison to try and show how great Stamford and Trumbull are.
You think wrong. The highest wealth in town is along the coast, in the south. North Norwalk is basically Trumbull. This new place will be built literally in the middle of lower ffc along the coast and right off the highway and connector. Talk about location. Do you think the developers are catering this to lower income South Norwalk residents? Do you know people in North Norwalk and the surrounding regions own automobiles which can transport them to the new mall?
Do you think the developers are catering this to lower income South Norwalk residents? Do you know people in North Norwalk and the surrounding regions own automobiles which can transport them to the new mall?
If the mall is located in South Norwalk, were the people with the lowest incomes live, who do you think will primarily be in the mall in that location? It does not matter whether they cater to lower income individuals or not, they will still be in the mall.
Let me give you a few antidotes. And yes, I AM specifically talking about the income level of the people who live in and around the 2 malls we are comparing.
*I have a friend that lives in Easton who is from a upper income family. She lives closer to the Trumbull mall than me. She rarely goes to the Trumbull mall. When I asked her why don't you go to the Trumbull mall she said to me "no thanks, I go shopping in Fairfield and Westport".
*I have another friend that lives in the southern section of New Canaan. She thumbs her nose at the Stamford Mall and does most of her shopping in New Canaan and the northern part of Stamford (High Ride Road) where people have higher incomes more in line with her.
*My mother lived in a North Carolina town for about 6 years. There was a mall in the poor section of town but it had a lot of nice stores. The wealthier people in the town did not go to the mall. This town built another mall in the wealthier section of town.
In my experience wealthy people don't want to patronize stores/malls in lower income areas.
I myself am not rich. I go down to Norwalk a few times a week for work. I stop in Westport on the way home to do some shopping. If a mall is going into South Norwalk in the midst of lower income neighborhoods even I will by pass it and continue to go shopping in Westport.
If the mall is located in South Norwalk, were the people with the lowest incomes live, who do you think will primarily be in the mall in that location? It does not matter whether they cater to lower income individuals or not, they will still be in the mall.
Let me give you a few antidotes. And yes, I AM specifically talking about the income level of the people who live in and around the 2 malls we are comparing.
*I have a friend that lives in Easton who is from a upper income family. She lives closer to the Trumbull mall than me. She rarely goes to the Trumbull mall. When I asked her why don't you go to the Trumbull mall she said to me "no thanks, I go shopping in Fairfield and Westport".
*I have another friend that lives in the southern section of New Canaan. She thumbs her nose at the Stamford Mall and does most of her shopping in New Canaan and the northern part of Stamford (High Ride Road) where people have higher incomes more in line with her.
*My mother lived in a North Carolina town for about 6 years. There was a mall in the poor section of town but it had a lot of nice stores. The wealthier people in the town did not go to the mall. This town built another mall in the wealthier section of town.
In my experience wealthy people don't want to patronize stores/malls in lower income areas.
I myself am not rich. I go down to Norwalk a few times a week for work. I stop in Westport on the way home to do some shopping. If a mall is going into South Norwalk in the midst of lower income neighborhoods even I will by pass it and continue to go shopping in Westport.
New Norwalk Mall doesn't meet Darien, North Stamford, Westport, Green Farms, Rowayton, Greenwich, Weston/Wilton standards ?
If the mall is located in South Norwalk, were the people with the lowest incomes live, who do you think will primarily be in the mall in that location? It does not matter whether they cater to lower income individuals or not, they will still be in the mall.
Let me give you a few antidotes. And yes, I AM specifically talking about the income level of the people who live in and around the 2 malls we are comparing.
*I have a friend that lives in Easton who is from a upper income family. She lives closer to the Trumbull mall than me. She rarely goes to the Trumbull mall. When I asked her why don't you go to the Trumbull mall she said to me "no thanks, I go shopping in Fairfield and Westport".
*I have another friend that lives in the southern section of New Canaan. She thumbs her nose at the Stamford Mall and does most of her shopping in New Canaan and the northern part of Stamford (High Ride Road) where people have higher incomes more in line with her.
*My mother lived in a North Carolina town for about 6 years. There was a mall in the poor section of town but it had a lot of nice stores. The wealthier people in the town did not go to the mall. This town built another mall in the wealthier section of town.
In my experience wealthy people don't want to patronize stores/malls in lower income areas.
I myself am not rich. I go down to Norwalk a few times a week for work. I stop in Westport on the way home to do some shopping. If a mall is going into South Norwalk in the midst of lower income neighborhoods even I will by pass it and continue to go shopping in Westport.
The fatal flaw to your anecdotal thesis is that SONO restaurants are populated by wealthy residents from Darien, Wilton, and Westport (among others). Why would retail be any different? The westchester is in White Plains which is comparable to Norwalk and is high end. Do you think the LVMH and Nieman shoppers are from WP or from Bedford and Scarsdale?
OK, and? I don't think any of this contributes to the conversation.
Whether or not you think people in SW CT "look down" upon NJ (hardly something to brag about; Northern NJ is almost equally wealthy and arrogance is hardly a good trait) has nothing to do with whether or not SW CT can support stores that happen to be elsewhere in the metro area. And my experience is that people in SW CT are generally good people, not envious or haughty relative to other people around the country.
And people in CT aren't "too good" for suburban sprawly malls like in Paramus. Never heard of Danbury Fair, Westfarms, Connecticut Post, Trumbull, etc.?
Who knew that e-commerce was exclusive to Fairfield County? Somehow the rest of the country doesn't have the internet yet?
Mitchells, Richards and Umberto combined aren't even 25% of a fulll sized department store. These stores are totally irrelevent to whether or not SW CT can support Saks, NM, Nordstrom, Bloomies, etc.
Meaningless. These malls draw regionally. The specific median household income in a given jurisdiction is irrelevant. Bloomingdales and Nordstrom aren't opening in Norwalk because of Norwalk. They want a Fairfield Cty presence. They would open even in Bridgeport city limits if a nice mall were opening there.
Nice job with misinterpreting and finding biases that were neither explicit nor implied. For the record we don't look down on Bergen county but there is a different dynamic to SW CT (although Saddle River and Franklin Lakes are comparable). E-commerce is certainly not unique to FFC (again no where was that written), the implication was that SW CT has less chains, big block stores and malls, all of which are elastic to the BKs (bankruptcies) of retailers. We have less exposure. The comps to Detroit suburbs is also not apples to apples given that NYC across its suburban base has far more high end retail. Just not in every enclave, Detroit really only has Bloomfield hills and Troy while the NY metro has wealthy suburbs across three states!
In summary no envy here just well aware of our desire for less physical retail and stringent zoning. Move song.
The mall location is N Water St and Reed St which border I-95 and Route 7. The mall is 4 minutes drive from South Norwalk train station about 1 mile away. The Maritime Aquarium at Norwalk and new high end apartments also bars is on Washington St in South Norwalk half mile from new Mall. East Norwalk is just across the river. 06854 area which new Norwalk mall average income is nearly 60,000 a year.
The fatal flaw to your anecdotal thesis is that SONO restaurants are populated by wealthy residents from Darien, Wilton, and Westport (among others). Why would retail be any different? The westchester is in White Plains which is comparable to Norwalk and is high end. Do you think the LVMH and Nieman shoppers are from WP or from Bedford and Scarsdale?
"Why would retail be any different?"
It is not a fatal flaw. The poor residents in the area surrounding the little bubble that is SONO can't afford to patronize those restaurants and are not in those restaurants. I have done this myself to see friends play in South Norwalk but as a woman I ALWAYS go with my husband or a friend. We are in that small little "bubble" on Washington Street when we go to a restaurant or bar.
Anyone can have access to a mall whether they buy something in there or not. And that includes all the low income people in the area. They can hang out there all day if they want without buying anything or eating. Who do you think will be in the food court where all the fast food is? Go take a ride outside of the SONO "bubble" and see who lives in the area.
A big retail mall is vastly different from a small bar in the bubble that is Washington Street in SONO.
Do you know that there used to be a mall in New Haven and now it is not there? There are plenty of people that could have gone to the mall from Branford, Madison, Guilford etc. I wonder why the mall in New Haven closed?
The mall location is N Water St and Reed St which border I-95 and Route 7. The mall is 4 minutes drive from South Norwalk train station about 1 mile away. The Maritime Aquarium at Norwalk and new high end apartments also bars is on Washington St in South Norwalk half mile from new Mall. East Norwalk is just across the river. 06854 area which new Norwalk mall average income is nearly 60,000 a year.
I used to work on Van Zant Street and on Washington Street right in SONO. I had 2 different jobs in that area about 10 years apart. I am well aware of who lives in the area and that is why I am proffering these opinions.
The fatal flaw to your anecdotal thesis is that SONO restaurants are populated by wealthy residents from Darien, Wilton, and Westport (among others). Why would retail be any different? The westchester is in White Plains which is comparable to Norwalk and is high end. Do you think the LVMH and Nieman shoppers are from WP or from Bedford and Scarsdale?
Exactly. White Plains isn't a wealthy city, yet is has one of the highest end and most successful malls in the metro area. Their Bloomingdales is one of the highest grossing in the country. Obviously the draw is regional.
Similarly, an upscale mall opening in Norwalk isn't opening specifically because of Norwalk. They're opening because the region (Fairfield County) is one of the wealthiest on the planet, and you could never get such a megamall built in the truly upscale towns anyways. It would be impossible to build such a complex in New Canaan, Greenwich, Westport, Wilton, Darien, etc.
Again, they would open these stores even in Bridgeport city limits if there were a top mall operator planning a high-end complex. They don't care about city limits, which are irrelevent to where people shop. It isn't like Whole Foods is in Port Chester specifically because of Port Chester, or Lord & Taylor is in Yonkers specifically because of Yonkers. Builders go where they are allowed to build, and in this part of the country, the more working class urban areas allow development and the rich towns don't.
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