[nep321]

Tax cutting has always been a conservative fantasy, for years. In reality, it doesn't bode well for a prosperous society.

It is perfectly moral to collect tax on an individual's income earnings. Taxes are a "phantom expense" anyway, with respect to the individual. Let's assume that you get paid a salary of $100,000 and your tax expense is $30,000. You are left with $70,000. What difference would it make if your salary was $70,000 and you had a tax expense of $0, and the employer simply forwarded $30,000 to the government? Free market prices of goods and services are in line with after-tax disposable income anyway. So please stop whining about paying taxes.

FDR once said this about how conservatives think: "We will do all of them, we will do more of them, we will do them better and, most important of all, the doing of them will not cost anybody anything!"

[JayCT]

The world was very different back before the income tax was implemented in Connecticut. There were less Federal mandates to fund and the state's income fluctuated a lot based on people's buying habits. This meant that there was a less reliable source of income. Back in the 70's the state cut spending to the point where vital things like bridge maintenance were cut. Then when the Mianus Bridge collapsed, the state woke up and got its act together. While no one likes the income tax, it would be very hard to meet the needs of the state today without it. Jay

[Lalalally]

I moved to CT a few years after state income tax went into effect. It was still a hotly debated issue when we arrived though (around four years after it was implemented). I remember a lot of people were still angry because prior to the income tax, the automobile tax was justified and acceptable. Then the income tax came along, but the car tax never went away... I met lots of pissed off natives the first few years we lived here

[EricS39]

Sad thing is once a new tax is added, seldom will you ever see it taken back away. What you will see is a tax in place of another tax, like the turnpike toll booth elimination replaced by paying the highest prices at the gas pump instead

[mlassoff]

There are many factors leading to decline, despite increased tax receipts--

1) We now pay for expanded police departments that retired 30 years ago, one that retired 10 years ago and the one currently working. Expanding an unsustainable pension and insurance obligations are costing us QOL and increased taxes.

2) There are more poor than during the pre-income tax modern period. This stresses state resources.

3) The infrastucture that was passable 25 years ago, is now in crisis state.

4) We're paying municipal workers, relatively, higher salaries and the upward pressure continues. $90K to be an only moderately experienced railroad conductor? Really? Cops making $150K? I don't begrudge anyone a living, but municipal salaries are getting out of hand.

5) Federal mandates, legislation (such as the Education for All Handicapped Children act), and the results of court cases (Sheff v O'Neil, and others) have dramatically driven up the cost of education. Education budgets in most towns have grown MUCH more quickly than inflation.

Something's got to give.

Regarding Flat Taxes
Flat taxes are great for rich people... Not so great for lower and middle class. A poor person may spend all $15K they make. A middle class person is likely to spend all $45K. Hell, many in Westport busy keeping up with the Jonses spend all $200K they make. So you pay tax based on your consumption ... to a point.

The wealthy person who makes $1M per year may only spend $500K-- so their additional income, which doesn't get reinjected in the economy is tax free. Count passive income in your flat tax, and I'm in. Flat taxes aren't necessarily simpler either because they still don't answer the questions: What is and isn't income.

Just my $.02...

[Sigequinox]

Originally Posted by JayCT

The world was very different back before the income tax was implemented in Connecticut. There were less Federal mandates to fund and the state's income fluctuated a lot based on people's buying habits. This meant that there was a less reliable source of income. Back in the 70's the state cut spending to the point where vital things like bridge maintenance were cut. Then when the Mianus Bridge collapsed, the state woke up and got its act together. While no one likes the income tax, it would be very hard to meet the needs of the state today without it. Jay

I wish i could levy a tax every time Mianus collapses...you ever eat New Haven cart food?

[MrGompers]

I was in college at the time earning very little money, so the passage of the income tax didn't really affect me until much later.


I don't think CT changed much compared to the pre income tax years. Possibly, it kept a bit more money instate since some people would buy products instate vs out of state with a lowered sales tax of 6%.

I remember an interesting story regarding sales tax in NY vs CT (when CT was 8%) I remember this story since one of my teachers in college used it as an example. I think it was economics but could have been an accounting class too.

Along the NY CT border people from the CT side were ordering furniture from NY stores (and paying NY sales tax) and having the furniture delivered to a CT address. Now before the advent of computers and internet these types of transactions were much harder to catch. IIRC this example was also used as one reason CT should reduce the sales tax. Now we have the opposite situation where NY consumers come to CT to buy (for the lower sales tax).

One difference between the income tax years and the pre income tax years is I believe less New Yorkers and NYC residents live in CT. They have to pay NY income tax regardless of where they live now so why not live in NY instead? I don't have any stats to back this up, just a gut feeling I have.


I personally was more affected by the passage of the Fed income reforms of 1986. They made changes to the tax exemption rules and a lot of people got caught off guard by that. A number of my high school classmates and myself owed Fed income taxes that year despite having low earnings. (less than $10,000)

[DairyGodmother]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

There are many factors leading to decline, despite increased tax receipts--

1) We now pay for expanded police departments that retired 30 years ago, one that retired 10 years ago and the one currently working. Expanding an unsustainable pension and insurance obligations are costing us QOL and increased taxes.

2) There are more poor than during the pre-income tax modern period. This stresses state resources.

3) The infrastucture that was passable 25 years ago, is now in crisis state.

4) We're paying municipal workers, relatively, higher salaries and the upward pressure continues. $90K to be an only moderately experienced railroad conductor? Really? Cops making $150K? I don't begrudge anyone a living, but municipal salaries are getting out of hand.

5) Federal mandates, legislation (such as the Education for All Handicapped Children act), and the results of court cases (Sheff v O'Neil, and others) have dramatically driven up the cost of education. Education budgets in most towns have grown MUCH more quickly than inflation.

Something's got to give.

Regarding Flat Taxes
Flat taxes are great for rich people... Not so great for lower and middle class. A poor person may spend all $15K they make. A middle class person is likely to spend all $45K. Hell, many in Westport busy keeping up with the Jonses spend all $200K they make. So you pay tax based on your consumption ... to a point.

The wealthy person who makes $1M per year may only spend $500K-- so their additional income, which doesn't get reinjected in the economy is tax free. Count passive income in your flat tax, and I'm in. Flat taxes aren't necessarily simpler either because they still don't answer the questions: What is and isn't income.

Just my $.02...

This. All of this.

I had a brother in law who was a state social worker who put in about 20-25 hours a week. He made 100k with 18 years experience and will have a pension for life...even though he was fired for a DUI

I know there is an altruistic support for well-paid public employees, but seriously? Pensions?

[Tilt11]

I'd like to see state spending and budgets from then compared to now. What have they increased spending on?

I still believe a state is doing something wrong if it has such a high COL, an income tax, high gas tax, etc yet still has issues.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Tilt11

I'd like to see state spending and budgets from then compared to now. What have they increased spending on?

I still believe a state is doing something wrong if it has such a high COL, an income tax, high gas tax, etc yet still has issues.

My bet that primal would be:

• Increased number of pensioners
• Increased number of state workers
• Significantly higher salaries (in adjusted dollars) for state workers