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I talked to one of our mutual friends, and found out more details.
First, his wife actually has a law degree herself, and was working as a corporate lawyer in Manhattan for several years. She got burnt out, both because she hated the job and hated the long commute on the train. So she decided to quit her job and sell Mary Kay (not Avon). She's done some paralegal work since then too, but hasn't used her law degree since.
Second, he didn't tell me this, but apparently the car issues he caused were the result of a near miss with a horrible accident - while the baby was in the car. Apparently this happened the other week and was sort of the breaking point which made things go from bad to worse in their relationship.
To be honest, I'm not interested in pointing fingers here. I think they both have made stupid decisions (both regarding career choices and choosing this time to have a kid). I'm the same age as my friend (35), I've been married for as long, and I have two kids. My wife and I went through some trying times ourselves when we had a new baby even though money wasn't involved - enough that I requested marriage counseling. I know enough about what stress does to marriages, and why marriages fail, at this point to realize assigning blame actually makes things worse. The single biggest determinant of marriage failure is high stress. And since they can't get rid of the stress of having a baby, my only thought for a solution was to lessen financial stress by getting out from under their liabilities, reducing their living expenses, and moving somewhere the job market was stronger.
Also, as I intimated, they both wanted to "downsize" into other, lower-pay (but low stress white collar) careers anyway. And they have wanted to leave CT for at least three years and been trapped due to the house value. So I figured it was just showing them a way out of the trap. Admittedly, I'm not sure from her perspective why she'd move out of state with a husband from a failing marriage.
I'm sorry but respectfully imho she doesn't love her husband because if she did she would've acted differently/positively and also mentally already checked out of their marriage long enough ago. I feel her "coldness" from here as the car issues (thank GOD he and his son are okay) is an act by her to justify what I said in my previous post. One thing that I wish for is that I'm SO VERY MISTAKEN.
I talked to one of our mutual friends, and found out more details.
First, his wife actually has a law degree herself, and was working as a corporate lawyer in Manhattan for several years. She got burnt out, both because she hated the job and hated the long commute on the train. So she decided to quit her job and sell Mary Kay (not Avon). She's done some paralegal work since then too, but hasn't used her law degree since.
Second, he didn't tell me this, but apparently the car issues he caused were the result of a near miss with a horrible accident - while the baby was in the car. Apparently this happened the other week and was sort of the breaking point which made things go from bad to worse in their relationship.
To be honest, I'm not interested in pointing fingers here. I think they both have made stupid decisions (both regarding career choices and choosing this time to have a kid). I'm the same age as my friend (35), I've been married for as long, and I have two kids. My wife and I went through some trying times ourselves when we had a new baby even though money wasn't involved - enough that I requested marriage counseling. I know enough about what stress does to marriages, and why marriages fail, at this point to realize assigning blame actually makes things worse. The single biggest determinant of marriage failure is high stress. And since they can't get rid of the stress of having a baby, my only thought for a solution was to lessen financial stress by getting out from under their liabilities, reducing their living expenses, and moving somewhere the job market was stronger.
Also, as I intimated, they both wanted to "downsize" into other, lower-pay (but low stress white collar) careers anyway. And they have wanted to leave CT for at least three years and been trapped due to the house value. So I figured it was just showing them a way out of the trap. Admittedly, I'm not sure from her perspective why she'd move out of state with a husband from a failing marriage.
Dads a lawyer and she tried to become one herself? This is what happens when parents don't allow their kids to choose their own career paths, sounds like she never wanted to be in that profession in the first place so was dad the pressure that made her go to law school in the first place?
In her defense I've had read numerous articles where women had enough of the corporate world and they go launch their own companies, perhaps she should do this, Mary Kay is too much of a niche business.
Homes were never meant to get rich quick on, do a strategic default, they probably owe more then what the home is worth, toss the keys and walk away.
If they are not truly in love with each other I doubt they have any interest in even saving the marriage in the first place. If I'm wrong, they need to both fess up to their mistakes, commit to being in it together, and go start a new life somewhere else.
I hear ya, I had jobs I didn't like either, and just like your dad went on to open a business as well. Selling Avon is not a reliable source of income because it's a want based business. I'm in automotive and have been since my military career ended, people need their cars serviced and repaired, people don't need Avon. I'm certified in automotive systems and a licensed vehicle safety inspector, if I lived where this couple lived Id fix there car for free just to help them out.
Armyvet1,
God bless you and thank you for your service to your country!
My make up is not a want for most woman, it is a necessity and I am sure most woman think just like me. I won't even go out to my mailbox without my makeup let alone to work and out in public. I have had lots of friends who have made a nice little income selling Avon and Mary Kay etc. after they built a nice client base. I don't always need to get my car fixed but I wear my makeup EVERYDAY as I am sure most other woman do. If you can build a good client base it can be good steady extra income for a stay at home mom. I am sure your business didn't happen over night, my dad's business didn't either, and she will need some time and perseverance to get going.
"The report, Beauty at any Cost, noted U.S. women spent some $7 billion a year, or an average of about $100 each, on cosmetics and beauty products. That $100 a month......" How Much Do You Spend on Makeup? TheGloss
BTW, you probably don't realize this but in a bad economy when woman don't have a lot of money for more expensive luxuries we spend more on makeup (especially lipstick) because it makes us feel better. I certainly can attest to the lipstick.
Hmm interesting articles you posted there, you are right, I would have not known that about make up and I've been married to a woman for 21 years, lol.
Knowing what the poster shared with us about the wife my opinion is that perhaps dad went to law school so maybe she thought she had to as well? My point is when she had the position she walked away from it which indicates to me she probably never wanted to be a lawyer in the first place, it wasn't her dream.
When I got out if the service I had 30 grand for college cause of the GI Bill. I could have been almost anything but I do mechanics. It's not a glamorous job, it's looked down upon cause it's blue-collar, but I have had a passion for cars ever since I was a kid, I do it cause I like it, it makes me happy. I used to take my bicycle apart just to see how it worked, it wasn't even broken, lol.
To the younger folks out there the worst thing you could ever do is pursue a career just for the money. If you try and do this, you will end up miserable in a unsuccessful career. Trust me, I've been there, it's not worth it.
Old Armyvet1 may not be a Harvard MBA but I do have some wisdom, my military career has taken me to 6 different states and 1 European country. I've met people, I've seen things, and through it all I have developed a pretty good sense of what's out there.
It sounds more and more like they are both immature and need counseling, not just marriage counseling, but also career and individual counseling as neither can decide where they want to go in life. They both have great educations and by this point (mid 30's) both should have a solid career. But neither do. If they'd planned their careers and savings properly the wife could have taken the time off to stay home with the baby, but she left her job too soon, and he never found a solid job. So now they are just adrift. The time for searching for that dream job has passed, they can't afford to be so idealistic anymore. They both share the responsibility for the situation they are in.
I will say in the woman's defense (and I'm a man by the way) that some careers like law truly expect you to work almost literally your every waking hour and are not very friendly for anyone with kids, especially women (since if you're a man and are married with kids the firm figures they pay you so much that your wife stays home......obviously the reverse can happen and the husband can stay home and nowadays sometimes does but to this day it's still not the expectation by management in these kinds of jobs). So I can understand to some point her being sick of her career, especially if the husband also had little time at home to deal with the baby because of all his commuting (as opposed to it being some "immature 16 year old finding herself at 35". Yes, most lawyers make a LOT of money, but again, this is the tradeoff and in some situations the money does not help it.
People should be made more aware that some careers do expect you to work like that as opposed to a "standard" 40-45 hour week, in fact sadly it seems more and more do once you get above those $10-15/hour jobs. It's not "advertised" a lot because many companies don't want people to not work for them if they learn that before they sign up.
I will say in the woman's defense (and I'm a man by the way) that some careers like law truly expect you to work almost literally your every waking hour and are not very friendly for anyone with kids, especially women (since if you're a man and are married with kids the firm figures they pay you so much that your wife stays home......obviously the reverse can happen and the husband can stay home and nowadays sometimes does but to this day it's still not the expectation by management in these kinds of jobs). So I can understand to some point her being sick of her career, especially if the husband also had little time at home to deal with the baby because of all his commuting (as opposed to it being some "immature 16 year old finding herself at 35". Yes, most lawyers make a LOT of money, but again, this is the tradeoff and in some situations the money does not help it.
People should be made more aware that some careers do expect you to work like that as opposed to a "standard" 40-45 hour week, in fact sadly it seems more and more do once you get above those $10-15/hour jobs. It's not "advertised" a lot because many companies don't want people to not work for them if they learn that before they sign up.
It depends on what area of the law you work in. There's a lot of space in between working as a high-priced lawyer putting in 80 hours per week and selling Mary Kay cosmetics. Mary Kay cosmetics is a housewife job, for all but the strongest sellers.
It seems they both have a tendency to just quit jobs they don't like without considering the alternatives. And why would they go ahead and have a baby without getting these issues straightened out? I think they're both immature and directionless. They are both to blame for this situation.
eschaton, I think by now you realize that you're not really going to get useful advice from strangers on the internet. The majority of the replies seem to be focused on assigning blame to one or the other (or both) and are of little value in helping the situation in the short term. There's probably no good/easy answer to give. The husband needs to find a better paying job. He knows that, his wife knows that. I see no advantage, though, to getting up and moving somewhere else to try to find a better paying job. Find the job first, then move. Make sure the wife is on board and willing to move. If she's not, there's not much use in looking outside of the state.
As for the house...if it's severely underwater and their monthly cost for it is high, find an apartment and then just hand the house keys back to the bank. Or maybe they could all move in with her parents for a little while.
I would like to add one more thing which might get them some relief from their bank which they would be entitled to since they bought their house and got their mortgage when banks were committing all the fraud. Many big banks made a settlement with the Department of Justice and they have those funds waiting to help homeowners and they must be used to help the mortgage holders. One of my friends bought a house during this time period and they were able to get help from Chase Bank when her husband had his income cut.
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