[JayCT]

Originally Posted by East of the River

NYC to New Haven I believe is the busiest rail corridor in the country which causes issues. Amtrak well that's A CT NIMBY problem and Amtrak funding issue not a CT state government issue. There are more moving bridges in CT, there are a lot of curves once you cross into CT as well and a local population that tries to stop anything from changing ever.
















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Not to go off topic but you are correct. The line from New Haven to the New York State line is owned by Connecticut DOT, beyond that it is New York State. From New Haven to the Rhode Island line (and beyond I believe) is owned by Amtrak, not the state. This entire line is about 150 years old and was built to much different standards than modern rail would be today. To expect anything different is pretty silly as it would be to blame the state for the speeds trains can travel here. Amtrak is looking at long term solutions for improving travel times but this is going to cost tens of billions of dollars and no one has a clue how it would be paid for. It is unlikely that any of their plans would be realized in any of our lifetimes because they are so broad and expensive. Jay

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by beerbeer

Are these speeds for the Acela, Metroliner, Regional trains or an aggregate? The chart doesn't say.

The chart is the speed limit. In Connecticut, Acela and the Northeast Regional go the same speed. Acela is a bit quicker because it makes less stops. I use the train a lot out of Providence. On an expense account, I'll take Acela because the seats are better. On my dime, I take the Northeast Regional because it's, within a few minutes, the same travel time.

Once you get to New Jersey, Acela is much faster than regular Amtrak. NY Penn to DC is civilized. NY Penn to Boston is awful.

I think that Amtrak will eventually give up completely on Connecticut. Massachusetts is seriously considering high speed rail between Boston and Springfield. There's already rail line from Springfield west to the Mass Pike where it crosses the Westfield River. They can blow the line up the Mass Pike right of way to the NY line. The rail infrastructure down the Hudson Valley is much better than anything in Connecticut.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

The chart is the speed limit. In Connecticut, Acela and the Northeast Regional go the same speed. Acela is a bit quicker because it makes less stops. I use the train a lot out of Providence. On an expense account, I'll take Acela because the seats are better. On my dime, I take the Northeast Regional because it's, within a few minutes, the same travel time.

Once you get to New Jersey, Acela is much faster than regular Amtrak. NY Penn to DC is civilized. NY Penn to Boston is awful.

I think that Amtrak will eventually give up completely on Connecticut. Massachusetts is seriously considering high speed rail between Boston and Springfield. There's already rail line from Springfield west to the Mass Pike where it crosses the Westfield River. They can blow the line up the Mass Pike right of way to the NY line. The rail infrastructure down the Hudson Valley is much better than anything in Connecticut.

Have you not seen the plans for high speed rail that Amtrak is studying? They are looking at two routes through Connecticut. One parallels the existing route from Old Saybrook to Kenyon RI but is further inland and straighter so trains can go faster. There is opposition to that route since it slices right through the middle of some very historic properties. The second route is inland roughly following I-84. The decision process is just beginning and will likely take years.

Also so you know that Massachusetts plan for high speed rail from Springfield to Boston is an extension of the high speed rail project the Connecticut is building from New Haven to Springfield. This would be a great service if built but Massachusetts should really be focusing its efforts on closing the ridiculous gap in service between North and South Stations. There should be seamless rail service up and down the coast without transfers and crosstown treks that exist in Boston today. Jay

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by JayCT

This would be a great service if built but Massachusetts should really be focusing its efforts on closing the ridiculous gap in service between North and South Stations. There should be seamless rail service up and down the coast without transfers and crosstown treks that exist in Boston today. Jay

It kind of doesn't matter. The Northeast Corridor ends at South Station. There is no way rail north of there would ever have the passenger volume to survive without enormous subsidies. Portland, Maine is population 66,000. Maine has a 3 month tourist season. They only do 160k riders. It's the whole problem with Amtrak. Most of the system is like the Robert Byrd Highway to Nowhere in West Virginia. The rail investment and subsidies need to be where the people would actually ride the trains. Boston-DC and California. Instead, Amtrak is forced to run wildly unprofitable routes with empty trains.

The ridership in Boston is weak because Connecticut is so broken. Boston South Station only does 1 million passengers on Amtrak. Boston South Station to NY Penn Station is 231 miles. Acela is 3 1/2 to 4 hours. It's so slow that people opt to fly or drive.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

It kind of doesn't matter. The Northeast Corridor ends at South Station. There is no way rail north of there would ever have the passenger volume to survive without enormous subsidies. Portland, Maine is population 66,000. Maine has a 3 month tourist season. They only do 160k riders. It's the whole problem with Amtrak. Most of the system is like the Robert Byrd Highway to Nowhere in West Virginia. The rail investment and subsidies need to be where the people would actually ride the trains. Boston-DC and California. Instead, Amtrak is forced to run wildly unprofitable routes with empty trains.

The ridership in Boston is weak because Connecticut is so broken. Boston South Station only does 1 million passengers on Amtrak. Boston South Station to NY Penn Station is 231 miles. Acela is 3 1/2 to 4 hours. It's so slow that people opt to fly or drive.

I strongly disagree. It does matter and a lot. To maximize mass transit, it has to be seamless and easy to use. The current gap in Boston makes it difficult. No one wants to trek across a city with baggage to continue their trip so they use alternative transportation options, most likely a car, adding to congestion. People living in Maine, New Hampshire and the north shore of Massachusetts deserve to be treated better and should not have to deal with that gap when they travel down the east coast. It is likely if that gap was closed ridership on the northern leg would rise so don't dismiss it just because it is not as densely populated as the rest of the northeast corridor. Jay

[East of the River]

The rail line in CT is slow due to geography. Lots off water crossings and wetlands force it into curves and bridges that require it to slow down. That's why they want to realign the track thru Old Lyme. Amtrak has slowly updated to make it a high speed line but that's tough in populated areas. They changed bridges at New London and Niantic, but the CT river bridge is 100 years old and a major slow down. It will get fixed eventually,hopefully.

For bypassing CT that would be even more expensive. Western MA Amtrak has severe speed limitations even worse then those in CT. West of Springfield the line is hilly and very curvy. It also has been at level grade crossings unlike the line inCT where those have been mostly eliminated over the years. An the last reason is Amtrak shares tracks west of Springfield with CSX. Which eliminates it for the most part as a high speed line.

Connecting the two stations in Boston is a good idea. It's not just Portland it's all the north shore suburbs, Portsmouth and all of southern Maine.

[East of the River]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

It kind of doesn't matter. The Northeast Corridor ends at South Station. There is no way rail north of there would ever have the passenger volume to survive without enormous subsidies. Portland, Maine is population 66,000. Maine has a 3 month tourist season. They only do 160k riders. It's the whole problem with Amtrak. Most of the system is like the Robert Byrd Highway to Nowhere in West Virginia. The rail investment and subsidies need to be where the people would actually ride the trains. Boston-DC and California. Instead, Amtrak is forced to run wildly unprofitable routes with empty trains.

The ridership in Boston is weak because Connecticut is so broken. Boston South Station only does 1 million passengers on Amtrak. Boston South Station to NY Penn Station is 231 miles. Acela is 3 1/2 to 4 hours. It's so slow that people opt to fly or drive.

There are half a million passengers thru Amtrak at North station a year. All of that comes from north of Boston.

[KEVIN_224]

I just take the bus from Boston whenever I'm heading to Portland, ME. Concord Coach Lines has express bus service nearly every hour from South Station or Logan Airport to the Portland Transportation Center (C.C.L. and Amtrak Downeaster) on Thompson's Point Road, which is Exit 5 from I-295.

[ayoskillz]

I agree with eastofriver. Tracks have to many curves for aclea to go top speed, but its from Washington dc to boston. Not just one state. Mutiple states.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by KEVIN_224

I just take the bus from Boston whenever I'm heading to Portland, ME. Concord Coach Lines has express bus service nearly every hour from South Station or Logan Airport to the Portland Transportation Center (C.C.L. and Amtrak Downeaster) on Thompson's Point Road, which is Exit 5 from I-295.

Yep. When I lived in Portsmouth, NH, I always took C&J Trailways. Faster than the train, cheaper than the train, and hourly service.

10 million people use Amtrak at NY Penn Station. You want to spend all the tax dollars optimizing the routes people actually use to keep them out of the airports and out of cars. Nobody would dream of flying from New York to DC. People opt out of taking the train from Boston to New York because it's glacially slow due to the Connecticut problem. In New England, the DownEaster could be killed and nobody would notice. There is perfectly good bus service. Ditto the Vermonter. The ridership drops off massively north of the western Mass colleges. That line should end at Northampton/Amherst. The Ethan Allen is a total debacle. It runs empty north of Albany.

I've been doing Vermont/Philly business trips for many years. I'm 20 minutes from Rutland to pick up the Ethan Allen and 50 minutes to White River Junction to pick up the Vermonter. There's no way I can take the train. It burns an entire travel day. From Rutland, you get on the train at 8am. You get off the train at 30th street station at 4:12pm. The Vermonter from White River leaves at 11:37pm and hits 30th street station at 8:07pm. Drive/fly/train, I routinely make 10:30am meetings in downtown Philly. I can make it back to Vermont and sleep in my own bed the same day if I don't need to stay over. By train, I'm burning 2 hotel nights and three days to do 3 or 4 hours of meetings.