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Old 05-03-2015, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Derby, CT
3,591 posts, read 2,774,991 times
Reputation: 2967

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJackal View Post
Connecticut has self-destructive voting habits and it's a shame that the Catholic church and other churches in the state have been in decline. The churches down south are strong, not just the born-again and baptists but even Catholic churches are very vibrant. Just looking at the weekly offerings you'll find a random Catholic church having collected $25,000 in its weekly offering. One of the Catholic churches in town collects more than $50,000 every week. In Norwich most churches collect a few thousand. The cathedral gets more than the others but it's still so low. People down here are willing and able to give more money to their church while living in nicer houses on a lower income than what they'd make in CT.
And you think that's a bad thing? Churches have far too much influence over everything and as far as I'm concerned should be taxed out the ass. They are businesses in the end and should be treated as such.
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Old 05-03-2015, 10:53 AM
 
50 posts, read 42,328 times
Reputation: 61
Maintaining the parish, parochial schools (which are very vibrant down here), charitable efforts in the community, and of course I'm sure whatever isn't used locally gets put to use by the diocese or whatever. Down here Catholic hospitals owned by Bon Secours are expanding. Up there I believe St Raphael in New Haven just got sold to Yale. St Joseph's Catholic school in Norwich closed a few years ago, and the Catholic school in Jewett City recently closed as well. Norwich still has 2 remaining parochial schools but they're nothing like what this area has.

The point is that there's still a generous community with Christian values and Catholic institutions that are crumbling in the Northeast are vibrant and growing down here. Ultimately there's a much longer argument behind all of this. Free nations become unsustainable when their society becomes less religious. More Social Democracy (aka what many on the right call "socialism") will be needed to fill the gaps as society breaks down. This will in turn feed the decline as the government will be there to help and to play the role of provider, even if it does a poor job in doing that. I'm in favor of rolling back the no-fault divorce laws, strictly against any elective abortions past the point of viability, and want government policy to do more to reward married opposite sex couples who choose to raise children (including through adoption). I'm moderately socially conservative and I realize that this makes me outside the mainstream in CT. My social views are slightly moderate maybe even liberal down south. I like the north for other reasons, as I mentioned in the other comment.
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Old 05-03-2015, 10:53 AM
 
2,037 posts, read 3,474,574 times
Reputation: 1751
Quote:
Originally Posted by andthentherewere3 View Post
And what does the Catholic church do with all that money?
Unfortunately, they give it away in lawsuit judgements. And to buy more art for the Vatican.
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Old 05-03-2015, 11:23 AM
 
6,500 posts, read 5,427,590 times
Reputation: 3588
I've got my issues with CT. But I don't hate living here, just certain things. I will say this, can't wait to get out of Hamden. Don't like how some people act here. Too much New Haven bleed imo. Too many people are inconsiderate and rude. Just walking out of McDonalds, and someone thinks everyone wants to listen to Tupac rap N___ this and F that over and over. That happens way too often here.
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:11 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,253 posts, read 39,226,601 times
Reputation: 20198
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJackal View Post
Maintaining the parish, parochial schools (which are very vibrant down here), charitable efforts in the community, and of course I'm sure whatever isn't used locally gets put to use by the diocese or whatever. Down here Catholic hospitals owned by Bon Secours are expanding. Up there I believe St Raphael in New Haven just got sold to Yale. St Joseph's Catholic school in Norwich closed a few years ago, and the Catholic school in Jewett City recently closed as well. Norwich still has 2 remaining parochial schools but they're nothing like what this area has.

The point is that there's still a generous community with Christian values and Catholic institutions that are crumbling in the Northeast are vibrant and growing down here. Ultimately there's a much longer argument behind all of this. Free nations become unsustainable when their society becomes less religious. More Social Democracy (aka what many on the right call "socialism") will be needed to fill the gaps as society breaks down. This will in turn feed the decline as the government will be there to help and to play the role of provider, even if it does a poor job in doing that. I'm in favor of rolling back the no-fault divorce laws, strictly against any elective abortions past the point of viability, and want government policy to do more to reward married opposite sex couples who choose to raise children (including through adoption). I'm moderately socially conservative and I realize that this makes me outside the mainstream in CT. My social views are slightly moderate maybe even liberal down south. I like the north for other reasons, as I mentioned in the other comment.
My theory on why there are more private schools down south:

There are more churches, which means more tax-free entities, which means less funding for public education, in the south. As a result, the public schools in the south typically suck, in a big way. And so, there is much more demand for private schools among those people who want their kids to get a better education than they can in the sucky private school system.

In Connecticut, there are fewer churches, thus fewer tax-exempt entities, which means more money available to support higher quality public school systems. Thus, there are fewer people who have need/want to enroll their kids in private schools, resulting in fewer private schools.
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Derby, CT
3,591 posts, read 2,774,991 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJackal View Post
Maintaining the parish, parochial schools (which are very vibrant down here), charitable efforts in the community, and of course I'm sure whatever isn't used locally gets put to use by the diocese or whatever. Down here Catholic hospitals owned by Bon Secours are expanding. Up there I believe St Raphael in New Haven just got sold to Yale. St Joseph's Catholic school in Norwich closed a few years ago, and the Catholic school in Jewett City recently closed as well. Norwich still has 2 remaining parochial schools but they're nothing like what this area has.

The point is that there's still a generous community with Christian values and Catholic institutions that are crumbling in the Northeast are vibrant and growing down here. Ultimately there's a much longer argument behind all of this. Free nations become unsustainable when their society becomes less religious. More Social Democracy (aka what many on the right call "socialism") will be needed to fill the gaps as society breaks down. This will in turn feed the decline as the government will be there to help and to play the role of provider, even if it does a poor job in doing that. I'm in favor of rolling back the no-fault divorce laws, strictly against any elective abortions past the point of viability, and want government policy to do more to reward married opposite sex couples who choose to raise children (including through adoption). I'm moderately socially conservative and I realize that this makes me outside the mainstream in CT. My social views are slightly moderate maybe even liberal down south. I like the north for other reasons, as I mentioned in the other comment.
Always want those good Christian values! Wouldn't want those dirty liberal anti God people running the show!

Those evil women, choosing what to do with their bodies and what not, how dare they! And what's this with all of these gays running around like they're equal or something? Everyone knows marriage is a religious institution between one man and one woman!

PS: You're statement about free nations becoming unsustainable due to decrease of religion is demonstrably false.

Stay down south bro!
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:29 PM
 
50 posts, read 42,328 times
Reputation: 61
I'm coming back north, wolf39us. "Pro-choice" without restriction in the last trimester is a morally repugnant position to take. It's the official position of the Democratic party because of the influence of the fringe activists, but only a tiny minority of the overall population support that stuff. Most of the Democrat rank and file is against their party's extreme official position on abortion.

No reasonable person thinks it's just a "woman's body" in the final trimester. I think it's perfectly reasonable to draw the line where Roe v Wade did, at the point of viability. It's at the point of viability where things get complicated and you can no longer claim it's only about bodily autonomy of the woman. I'm also against abortion for down's syndrome and for gender selection. Health of the mother or serious health issues in the babies, yes. And again I think it would have to be unrestricted at least the first 3 months or so if not til the point of viability. This is where "when you are permitted to test for downs" and certain other things comes into play because, obviously, that's an unacceptable reason to get an abortion. My position on abortion is pretty moderate to liberal in most parts of the country.

P.S. my statement about nations with secular societies being unsustainable is demonstrably true.
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:37 PM
 
50 posts, read 42,328 times
Reputation: 61
AnonChick, CT used to be way more religious. The Catholic church in particular had a reasonably good amount of land and so did other churches. I think the better schools, generally, have more to do with Connecticut being a wealthier state for a long time. The south was poor and backwards til recently. Some of the backwards attitudes that made education less than stellar down here are still around, just see Bob Jones University for an example.

Of course in my home town of Norwich the schools are starting to look pretty terrible.
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Old 05-03-2015, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Derby, CT
3,591 posts, read 2,774,991 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJackal View Post
I'm coming back north, wolf39us. "Pro-choice" without restriction in the last trimester is a morally repugnant position to take. It's the official position of the Democratic party because of the influence of the fringe activists, but only a tiny minority of the overall population support that stuff. Most of the Democrat rank and file is against their party's extreme official position on abortion.

No reasonable person thinks it's just a "woman's body" in the final trimester. I think it's perfectly reasonable to draw the line where Roe v Wade did, at the point of viability. It's at the point of viability where things get complicated and you can no longer claim it's only about bodily autonomy of the woman. I'm also against abortion for down's syndrome and for gender selection. Health of the mother or serious health issues in the babies, yes. And again I think it would have to be unrestricted at least the first 3 months or so if not til the point of viability. This is where "when you are permitted to test for downs" and certain other things comes into play because, obviously, that's an unacceptable reason to get an abortion. My position on abortion is pretty moderate to liberal in most parts of the country.

P.S. my statement about nations with secular societies being unsustainable is demonstrably true.
Well then please, demonstrate away!
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:30 PM
 
50 posts, read 42,328 times
Reputation: 61
The easiest thing to explain is the propensity for secular people to have fewer children or no children at all. Birth rates are pathetic in Europe. In order to sustain their welfare state (which can be both a cause of and a consequence of secularism in society) they need more workers than their families are producing. Their solution? Importing big numbers of religious Muslims. These Muslims are more or less sticking to their faith and keeping their values, they aren't assimilating. They also have higher birth rates than white Europeans. The solution to one of the most obvious consequences of Europe's secularism is, rather ironically, to bring in non-secular immigrants who will mostly maintain their cultural and religious traditions. If Europe doesn't get its act together one day Europe as we've known it will no longer exist.

Look to religious Mormon Utah for an excellent example of a religious society in the rich world with birth rates high enough to sustain a civilization. Between their religiosity and what remains of traditional American liberty a lot of the social democratic institutions that Europeans rely on aren't really needed as much in Utah. And again, of course, with the healthy birth rates that Utah enjoys they'd be able to sustain a welfare state without mass immigration anyways.

Bottom line is that catastrophically low birth rates are just one of many consequences of secularism in society. Another product of American secular leftism is the breakdown in the family that we've seen over the past half century.
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