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So this piece in CT Mirror finds that the rankings we see touting that we are among the highest taxed states, particularly the often cited Tax Foundation, are flawed because they do not take local and county taxes or fees and tolls into account in their rankings. They also include taxes our residents pay in other states like New York which do not go to Connecticut. This makes a big difference and means the state is actually the ninth lowest in the country. It goes on to note that part of the reason we also rank high is because we do have much higher income levels which means more residents pay higher taxes and a more comprehensive analysis shows the true ranking is a lot lower. Jay
So this piece in CT Mirror finds that the rankings we see touting that we are among the highest taxed states, particularly the often cited Tax Foundation, are flawed because they do not take local and county taxes or fees and tolls into account in their rankings. They also include taxes our residents pay in other states like New York which do not go to Connecticut. This makes a big difference and means the state is actually the ninth lowest in the country. It goes on to note that part of the reason we also rank high is because we do have much higher income levels which means more residents pay higher taxes and a more comprehensive analysis shows the true ranking is a lot lower. Jay
Yeah, I get it if you only look at income taxes, you might not get the complete picture. But even then, this all seems very hard to believe. It basically goes against the experience of millions of people who have moved out of the Northeast or who are thinking of possibly moving out in the future.
For instance, North Carolina versus Connecticut.
North Carolina median property tax $1,209
Connecticut median property tax $4,378
He also wrote "On the Osborne-Hutchinson measure, Connecticut’s price of government is not the highest. To the contrary, in FY 2002 Connecticut ranked fourth lowest in the country, behind only New Hampshire, New Jersey, and Tennessee". Bolded mine.
Tennessee is understandable. New Hampshire is debatable. But New Jersey one of the lowest?!? I had to force myself to keep reading the article after that lol.
I chuckled when I saw the author was Bill Cibes, the Democrat who ran for governor in the 90s and lost by a landslide. He was also the author of pro income tax articles in years past, has made comments that state spending is appropriate and not mismanaged (we all know how that’s worked out), and ran the Office of Policy and Management under Lowell Weicker - the governor who signed CT’s income tax into law. So of course this master manipulator is going to try and use whatever methodology he can to make it appear CT is utopia. It’s a real, life Connecticut cheerleader!
That ranking seems out of line with other estimates.
I just want to say, though, that I think focusing simply on the total amount of taxes paid is a pretty narrow way of looking at things. By far my biggest tax burden here is my property tax. The thing is, most of that goes to our local school system. I've lived in states with lower taxes, and one reason/ consequence was that the schools SUCKED. There is a value to having an educated populace. You can't place a dollar value on it, but when you have to consciously use small words because the people you interact with won't understand you, you notice it.
Yeah, I get it if you only look at income taxes, you might not get the complete picture. But even then, this all seems very hard to believe. It basically goes against the experience of millions of people who have moved out of the Northeast or who are thinking of possibly moving out in the future.
For instance, North Carolina versus Connecticut.
North Carolina median property tax $1,209
Connecticut median property tax $4,378
He also wrote "On the Osborne-Hutchinson measure, Connecticut’s price of government is not the highest. To the contrary, in FY 2002 Connecticut ranked fourth lowest in the country, behind only New Hampshire, New Jersey, and Tennessee". Bolded mine.
Tennessee is understandable. New Hampshire is debatable. But New Jersey one of the lowest?!? I had to force myself to keep reading the article after that lol.
You may be correct about the median property taxes but note that Connecticut's median home price ($236,100) is much higher than North Carolina ($171,500) so of course the median property tax is higher. The major difference is that North Carolina has a lot of unincorporated areas so the taxes in those areas is very low. That offsets the taxes found in incorporated communities. Add into it the vast difference in income levels ($69,899 verses $46,693). Also note Connecticut has one of the highest rated education systems which account for the largest expenditure made by towns here, North Carolina has one of the lowest. As my dad always said, "You get what you pay for". Jay
[quote=JayCT;53316405]You may be correct about the median property taxes but note that Connecticut's median home price ($236,100) is much higher than North Carolina ($171,500) so of course the median property tax is higher. The major difference is that North Carolina has a lot of unincorporated areas so the taxes in those areas is very low. That offsets the taxes found in incorporated communities. Add into it the vast difference in income levels ($69,899 verses $46,693). Also note Connecticut has one of the highest rated education systems which account for the largest expenditure made by towns here, North Carolina has one of the lowest. As my dad always said, "You get what you pay for". Jay
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Isn’t this thread about tax burden, and not why the tax burden is what it is?
You don’t always get what you pay for. That’s like saying there’s a huge difference between Advil and CVS brand ibuprofen to treat the common headache. Advil is 30% more in price.
I chuckled when I saw the author was Bill Cibes, the Democrat who ran for governor in the 90s and lost by a landslide. He was also the author of pro income tax articles in years past, has made comments that state spending is appropriate and not mismanaged (we all know how that’s worked out), and ran the Office of Policy and Management under Lowell Weicker - the governor who signed CT’s income tax into law. So of course this master manipulator is going to try and use whatever methodology he can to make it appear CT is utopia. It’s a real, life Connecticut cheerleader!
Garbage.
Except that it is not Bill Cibes who is doing the evaluations that are saying this. He just wrote the article about these rankings and then explains why the rankings so often mentioned here are inaccurate. His points seem to make sense. Why should taxes paid to New York (among other things) be counted toward Connecticut's tax burden. The taxes are not levied by our state. Our state has no control over them. And you have to admit that we do have a lot of residents that work in New York, many of them are paid a lot of money too. That means they are taxed in the highest bracket as well which adds to it.
Also what about fees charged. Many of the low cost states have tolls on their highways. We do not. Soem states like Tennessee tax things needed to live like groceries and allow counties and municipalities to add on additional sales taxes. I was shocked to find that in Nashville you will pay 12% on purchases over $1,600. That's insane.
As I have pointed out here a number of times, many of these rankings of state taxes do not take into account that we do not have a county level of government so when you compare state level taxes, Connecticut comes out higher because it performs many of the duties that a county does in other states. The same thing with municipalities. Here they handle things like building permits and inspections, town clerk duties and probate courts. In other states these are handled on the county level. Why does that not count when these institutions rank states?
A couple years back there was a ranking of state taxes that had Connecticut among the highest. I contacted one of the authors of the study about our state not having a county level of government and she admitted she did not know that and it would make a difference. The following year they updated their rankings but once again did not account for this. I sent her another email questioning this and she did not respond. I know she got the email but I can only conclude that it would have been too hard for them to take their analysis to the next level and provide a more accurate ranking. Jay
Except that it is not Bill Cibes who is doing the evaluations that are saying this. He just wrote the article about these rankings and then explains why the rankings so often mentioned here are inaccurate. His points seem to make sense. Why should taxes paid to New York (among other things) be counted toward Connecticut's tax burden. The taxes are not levied by our state. Our state has no control over them. And you have to admit that we do have a lot of residents that work in New York, many of them are paid a lot of money too. That means they are taxed in the highest bracket as well which adds to it.
Also what about fees charged. Many of the low cost states have tolls on their highways. We do not. Soem states like Tennessee tax things needed to live like groceries and allow counties and municipalities to add on additional sales taxes. I was shocked to find that in Nashville you will pay 12% on purchases over $1,600. That's insane.
As I have pointed out here a number of times, many of these rankings of state taxes do not take into account that we do not have a county level of government so when you compare state level taxes, Connecticut comes out higher because it performs many of the duties that a county does in other states. The same thing with municipalities. Here they handle things like building permits and inspections, town clerk duties and probate courts. In other states these are handled on the county level. Why does that not count when these institutions rank states?
A couple years back there was a ranking of state taxes that had Connecticut among the highest. I contacted one of the authors of the study about our state not having a county level of government and she admitted she did not know that and it would make a difference. The following year they updated their rankings but once again did not account for this. I sent her another email questioning this and she did not respond. I know she got the email but I can only conclude that it would have been too hard for them to take their analysis to the next level and provide a more accurate ranking. Jay
I never said Cibes is doing the evaluations. I’m saying he’s presenting data in such a way that supports his past and his party affiliation. He is an absolute joke, which is why I laughed when I saw the author.
Why wouldn’t taxes paid to NY be counted? It’s being paid by CT residents, so that’s a percentage of their income. Like it or not, 50% of the state’s population resides in the NYC metro.
But I guess guys like him will manipulate anything to make it appear CT residents pay less than they actually do.
Re: county level, the problem in CT is wasteful spending. Independent police departments, fire departments, school districts with six figure administrators at each school. It’s unneeded and partially why the tax burden is what it is. We can jump up and down and clap our hands all day long about the quality of our wealthy suburban districts, when the highest taxed communities in CT have some of the worst performing schools in the western world.
I never said Cibes is doing the evaluations. I’m saying he’s presenting data in such a way that supports his past and his party affiliation. He is an absolute joke, which is why I laughed when I saw the author.
Why wouldn’t taxes paid to NY be counted? It’s being paid by CT residents, so that’s a percentage of their income. Like it or not, 50% of the state’s population resides in the NYC metro.
But I guess guys like him will manipulate anything to make it appear CT residents pay less than they actually do.
Re: county level, the problem in CT is wasteful spending. Independent police departments, fire departments, school districts with six figure administrators at each school. It’s unneeded and partially why the tax burden is what it is. We can jump up and down and clap our hands all day long about the quality of our wealthy suburban districts, when the highest taxed communities in CT have some of the worst performing schools in the western world.
It may be wasteful money-wise but do you really want decisions made about your community to be made by some regional agency far away from where you live? I don't. Also I have seen how well regional emergency services work for my family down south. It was not good and likely life-threatening. And while yes, Connecticut has some of the worst performing school districts (mostly in our cities), we also have some of the best and those in number and performance FAR outweigh the bad ones. As has been documented on this forum numerous times, overall our schools are a LOT better than other states. Again what these evaluations have nothing to do with the author of the article, anymore than the other rankings have to do with the posters here who cite them do. Jay
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