[skytrekker]

Gas prices in the San Francisco Bay area and Los Angeles are still higher then Connecticut.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by mels

Cruise control uses more gas when in hilly terrain since it guns it to maintain speed. I drive Rt 2 daily and the hills through South Glastonbury and Marlborough suck gas. I rarely use CC in CT because not many highways I drive are flat and more importantly, not traffic laden.

It depends on the system and car. MOST modern cars do not "gun it". They move the throttle position in increments that you can hardly replicate.

If you car needs 35% throttle to get up a hill and maintain a constant speed, it needs 35% throttle.

What you probably don't realize is that while you may still manually keep your accelerator at say 20% up the hill and lose the speed factor, you still have it at 20% coming DOWN the hill and increase speed. It's what most people do.

The cruise function has a "give and take away" principle and will coast on the downhill to make up for the "use" on the uphill. If you can manaully control it better on the up hill by going slower and coast on the downhill, yes you will probably do better on your own. Most folks don't.

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

This is true if when you drive on the highway it's smooth sailing. Usually when the majority of people are on the highway (in FF or NH Counties at least, and I'd assume the Hartford area) is during rush hour and it's stop and go. I know when I travel, I take back roads into Stamford so I'm not in bumper to bumper - I'm sure you know how much gas traffic wastes. Stop, gas, stop, gas, gas more, stop. You get the picture. I fill up less than 1/2 the time I did when I had my Subaru. And about a hybrid actually being worse in gas due to "extra weight," well I can tell you firsthand that it's not true. Even when I drive the Merritt up to the Valley when there's no traffic, I barely use any gas.

First off I think you misunderstood what I am saying. Bumper to bumper traffic where a vehicle like a hybrid does shine. If that's that majority of your driving - it's a wise choice as it will recover a lot of energy and "recycle" it.

I drive on the highways a lot with my current business and what I'm talking about are the guys in the "hybrid" making the 40+ mile trips...the "hybrid" factor does nothing for them and they would be better off with simply a fuel efficient car such as I listed.

On highway trips without stop and go, the hybrid makes you carry a weight penalty without recovering any energy, I can assure you this hurts fuel economy. If you take the Honda HF I used as an example and saddle it with another 300-400lbs it will indeed use more fuel. For people who do primarily "open" driving a fuel efficient non hybrid car that gets 40+mpg would serve them and the environment better.

Follow what I am saying?

P.S. Subaru's are one of the WORST for fuel efficiency and "green factor" as they have full time AWD - lots of driveline drag that is uneeded 98% of the time. I've always wondered why they took away the option of disengaging the rear axle at will and making the car 2wd like they used to...it saves a substantial amount of fuel.

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

I agree, but even going 80 in a hybrid uses much less gas than going 80 in a mid-sized car.

Depends. If you are comparing apples to apples, basic physics says the heavier car will need more energy to maintain it's constant speed. A V6 sedan going 80mph will use more gas than a skimpy 4cyl going 80mph simply due to the larger engine and heavier car - putting aerodynamics aside for a minute.

Your Altima in "non hybrid" form gets the same highway mileage for the most part. I'm sure if they were equipped identically with the same gear ratios, tire size etc the non hybrid would come ahead slightly. If you're not using the electric power during a highway cruise, it's less efficient to carry it around - and in some models use the gasoline engines energy to recharge the batteries that you will not be using at an 80mph cruise.

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

It really has nothing to do with "style" or hopping on the bandwagon. I personally find many hybrids to be very ugly (Prius, Civic Hybrid, etc) so I waited until the Altima came out in a hybrid. I'm not a fan of the granola liberals driving their Prius' with "Plant a Tree," "Obama" and "Not all who wander are lost" stickers on the back. Those folks, IMO, only bought their hybrid to make a statement. For me, it has everything to do with my need to save money in the short term while gas prices are as high as they are.

Oh I'm with you. The Altima is a fine car - hybrid or not.

What I was getting at are the people who buy the "hybrid" Lexus SUV or whatever and then pat themselves on the back for saving the world. They would never give up that "lexus" for a 1991 Honda Civic HF that gets 51mpg. Why? I guess it's "inconvenient" and cramps one's style.

So I guess we are saying the same thing. In your case, with your commute the hybrid makes sense. Why waste energy stoping and going if you can recover some of it.

If you were a salesman on the road all the time, I would have to argue that the extra cost, manufacturing waste and disposal of the electronics in the end would far offset any small gain in fuel efficiency.

Originally Posted by mr2448

This explains why many Connecticut residents fill up in Rhode Island. As of today you can find a range of 3.68-3.83

Two words: Gas tax

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

Friends of mine in Brewster, NY say the same thing. It's about 20 cents cheaper over the border. Funny how there are 2 gas stations, one in Danbury and one in Brewster, about 2 miles apart. The one in Danbury is $4.10 and in Brewster is $3.89.

Two words again: Gas tax.

That is why their fuel is less than ours. We have the nations highest gas tax or right at the top because it's a gross receipts tax. That means they get a percentage of the total fuel cost, not a "per gallon" fixed cost. When gas doubles, their revenue doubles. Someone in the legislature is a freakin genius on how to swindle the good tax paying folks out of their money as efficiently as possible and not get caught out in the mean time!

Originally Posted by Lincolnian

The price will continue to rise. Growing world-wide demand, a price controlling cartel, restricted output of refineries, and a oil-dependent infrastructure in the US will all continue to contribute to a long-term trend of continued price appreciation unless realistic substitute products become available.

The more we conserve, the more we give to China and other world markets. Think they really care about conservation? Nope.

Ethanol is the logical replacement. 98% of the cars on the road can be converted to run on ethanol with a fuel injector change (Possible fuel pump as well), and a computer reflash to compensate the new fuel. That's it! It's that easy to go zero emissions and home grown fuel. It's a reality that can be had very easily for the mass consumers. 250 million people are not going to give up their current cars and take a big loss to go purchase a hydrogen car or whatever.

Ethanol can be a reality in a couple years. Even the same gas stations can be used as a refilling medium without reinventing the wheel.

I see it as the most "real world" and most "doable" approach even if it does have some shortcomings.

Us drag racers have known the benefit of alcohol in engines for decades. It's a no brainer.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by skytrekker

Gas prices in the San Francisco Bay area and Los Angeles are still higher then Connecticut.

Actually gas prices in LA, as of this morning, are averaging $3.904 and in San Francisco, also as of this morning, are averaging exactly $4. In the San Diego area, $3.94. In Orange County, $3.907 and in Oakland, $3.958.

Today in Connecticut, the price rose to $4.024 maintaining its position as the highest in the continental US and third highest of all states.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by JViello

P.S. Subaru's are one of the WORST for fuel efficiency and "green factor" as they have full time AWD - lots of driveline drag that is uneeded 98% of the time.

That is exactly why I got rid of it - I bought it two years ago and while it was a great car, it just sucked too much gas. It was awesome in the snow though.

And I always laugh at the people on the road driving the hybrid Lexus SUVs and Toyota Highlanders. Ridiculous...

[neo08]

while ethanol is "home grown" and a better choice supposedly, Fuels that come from food source are again not GOOD for the planet and economies in general.

Watering the corn would suck aquafers dry before we can realize. Also, all that fertilizer and fuels needed to FARM the food for our cars is not that good for the environment as well. I saw once on national geographic a show about fertilizers going into watersheds and doing crazy things.

The answer, i hate to say, is Conservation and using the resources wisely. Yes, alternative sources of energy are good for home heating and electricity and electric cars. But if everyone understood that the planet is paying a price for our growth, and tried to live within the means, the planet would be able to sustain itself for a longer term.

If the rest of the world can use and depend public transportation, why not us ? That's another area that needs improvement.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by neo08

while ethanol is "home grown" and a better choice supposedly, Fuels that come from food source are again not GOOD for the planet and economies in general.

Watering the corn would suck aquafers dry before we can realize. Also, all that fertilizer and fuels needed to FARM the food for our cars is not that good for the environment as well. I saw once on national geographic a show about fertilizers going into watersheds and doing crazy things.

The answer, i hate to say, is Conservation and using the resources wisely. Yes, alternative sources of energy are good for home heating and electricity and electric cars. But if everyone understood that the planet is paying a price for our growth, and tried to live within the means, the planet would be able to sustain itself for a longer term.

If the rest of the world can use and depend public transportation, why not us ? That's another area that needs improvement.

Stop repeating all the anti-ethanol sqwak you hear on every other anit-x website.

Some of the hardcore crunchies are really showing their true intention now that a REAL ZERO emissions alternative has been presented...They want us all to walk or bike where we should go, recycle our own crap, and live in a tent made from hemp while bathing in a nearby stream using moobeam flower sap for soap.

1. Who said ethanol needs to be made from corn?
2. Even if it was, have you ever been to Midwest Farm country? My ex-inlaws are paid well to let weeds grow on their 1500 acres...trust me. I'd rather they be farming their land again for fuel instead of sending more green to the terror camps.
3. Higher food prices are not related to ethanol production.

"Ethanol has certainly become the scapegoat for a variety of issues, in particular the current price of food," says Toni Nuernberg, the executive director of the Omaha, Neb.-based Ethanol Promotion and Information Center. "But there is a collection of factors responsible: Drought, population growth, higher demand for protein [i.e., meat] from developing countries, and transportation costs."

4. If a country like Brazil can be free from foreign oil and totally dependant on ethanol, why not the supposed greatest nation on earth? Well?

5. Since "everyone" doesn't understand what price the world is paying (Xcuz hour ignourants - uhhuck...) for our "growth" how about you enlighten us?

6. What do YOU propose. Don't just naysay, offer a solution. Conservation is great, no doubt...but we still need fuel in the end. Oh yea, good luck getting most Asian countries to join your fight for conservation. Guess what? They don't care...

Ethanol can be made by many sources - it's here, it's the ONLY viable alternative fuel that can easily be replaced in 98% of the cars currently on the road for under a $1K conversion. Once a full switchover is implemented car manufacturers can adjust engine items such as higher compression ratios and agressive ignition advance to regain the majority of the efficiency loss in ethanol's lower BTU output.

What other option is there that will not take 10 years to implement at best?

People are somewhat lazy and realistic in the end. Our nation as a whole WILL NOT trade gasoline if it's going to cost them thousands of dollars or seriously cramp their lifestyle. That's simply reality.

See #6 if you don't think so.

Here is a great article from Yale on Brazil and Ethanol.

As Brazil Fills Up on Ethanol, It Weans Off Energy Imports

[Tin Knocker]

It sucks but thats life. I dont even sweat the price differences. I mean, even a $.20 difference is $4 in a 20 gallon tank. $78.00 or $82.00 its still a nice chunk of money.
I worried about price more when it was $2 a gallon

[Rich Lee]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

Actually gas prices in LA, as of this morning, are averaging $3.904 and in San Francisco, also as of this morning, are averaging exactly $4. In the San Diego area, $3.94. In Orange County, $3.907 and in Oakland, $3.958.

Today in Connecticut, the price rose to $4.024 maintaining its position as the highest in the continental US and third highest of all states.

Thanks kidyankee764,

I was talking about statewide averages. I'm sure we can find a city or two here or there that are exceptions, but the point is Connecticut as a whole is higher than California as a whole. The point is, my brother who recently came back from San Diego said that gas is slightly cheaper in California...and he's right.

[wanderintonc]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

That is exactly why I got rid of it - I bought it two years ago and while it was a great car, it just sucked too much gas. It was awesome in the snow though.

And I always laugh at the people on the road driving the hybrid Lexus SUVs and Toyota Highlanders. Ridiculous...

Well...it's not ridiculous to drive a Highlander if you need seating for seven, because it is the only hybrid that does. It gets 34 mpg, which is not bad. I am still holding out for the Toyota minivan hybrid-which they currently only sell in Europe and Japan, for some reason-it gets 40 mpg, supposedly! There are a lot of minivan folks like myself who want that van. I'm just not an SUV gal, although the Highlander seems nice.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Rich Lee

Thanks kidyankee764,

I was talking about statewide averages. I'm sure we can find a city or two here or there that are exceptions, but the point is Connecticut as a whole is higher than California as a whole. The point is, my brother who recently came back from San Diego said that gas is slightly cheaper in California...and he's right.

Rich -

I agree with you 100%. I was referring to Skytrekker who said gas prices in CA are cheaper, which according to many sources, is unfortunately not the case.