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I agree the weather is indeed milder here compared to 12-15 years ago- and there is a larger difference between now and 30 years ago.
As an almost native New Englander now (been here since I was 6, and a short time on the left coast) things are changing rapidly right before our eyes- some climate scientists say the climate will change even more after 2010- toward continued mild and even milder winters, earlier springs, hotter summers, milder falls, and a later start to winter. In this decade alone- autumns are lasting much longer with mild weather well into late November.
As I have said before- back in the late 70s, trees here where mostly bare of leaves by November 1st- now its just not the case- with the 'stick season' seeing bare trees by the third week of November, 10-15 days later. I recall the day before Thanksgiving last year (Nov 21st) still seeing sugar maples with colored leaves on their branches-and not just a few- this was unheard of 2-3 decades ago.
Global warming? The climate here is changing quickly- its simply milder then in the past. This does not mean we will suddenly see no winter cold or snow- it does mean we will see less in years to come most of the time.
The climate scientists have basically been saying that spring now begins 8-10 days earlier- its easy to say the autumn is now progressing at least that much later.
Last edited by skytrekker; 06-26-2008 at 03:21 PM..
We're laughing pretty hard here in LA. We just did the reverse and moved from East Coast to West. I just went back east and realized how much I despised the summers in DC and the mosquitoes. We couldn't use our deck in July or August without getting eaten alive, horrible. My advice, hang in there until September, it will be beautiful in the Fall, and first winter snow storm will be awesome (the last one of the season will be unwelcome). We love LA but miss the seasons and a nice long rainy day would be nice every once in a while. Everything in life is a trade-off. Also think about this: you don't have to worry about the "Big One" anymore!
PS: Another beautiful day here, windows open, birds chirping, and the smell of Jasmine in the breeze.
Winter is too cold in coastal California and the ocean is freezing cold. Also, CA is dirty, pollution on the beach, overpriced, and overcrowed.
You could easily say the same thing about the Northeast. Also compare CA's population density to CT's and then tell me which one is overcrowded. CT has about 3x as many people per square mile as CA. The ocean is Southern CA is just as warm as the NE during summer as well and much warmer in winter.
You could easily say the same thing about the Northeast. Also compare CA's population density to CT's and then tell me which one is overcrowded. CT has about 3x as many people per square mile as CA. The ocean is Southern CA is just as warm as the NE during summer as well and much warmer in winter.
and neither can the Atlantic Ocean w/o a storm
California has a lower population density due to its large size- however most of California's population is in three metro areas that have become very congested (SF bay area, LA, Orange county) & greater SD. These three cities and their satellite cities are far more populated, with much higher population densities and traffic then all of Connecticut's metro areas. For istance the SF bay area has over 7 million people- almost double the entire population of CT.
Additionally the the central Valley is growing quickly. Connecticut's growth is far more sustainable- and the control of sprawl here is of utmost importance.
Water temperatures on the south New England coast in the summer aveage around 73 degrees- the winter waters average around 40-45-.
Ever Been to Virginia Beach? Easily surfable waves. Not Hawaii mind you but still just as nice as most of the west coast. The national sea shore on cape cod will often have 9-12'' waves but they are not surfable because the break right on the beach. Narragansett town beach in RI is one of the best surf sites around. The waves may not be as huge but they roll in forever. Its all a matter of taste. If I was to move to the left coast it would be very northern cali but preferably Oregon. I love New England if you get tired of the weather well just wait a minute it will be different.
California has a lower population density due to its large size- however most of California's population is in three metro areas that have become very congested (SF bay area, LA, Orange county) & greater SD. These three cities and their satellite cities are far more populated, with much higher population densities and traffic then all of Connecticut's metro areas. For istance the SF bay area has over 7 million people- almost double the entire population of CT.
Additionally the the central Valley is growing quickly. Connecticut's growth is far more sustainable- and the control of sprawl here is of utmost importance.
Water temperatures on the south New England coast in the summer aveage around 73 degrees- the winter waters average around 40-45-.
Yeah I know that, which means we have access to areas that are less populated and more isolated and wild than anywhere in the Northeast; just look at how sparsely populated much of CA is, especially north of the Bay Area. LA has the most distinct boundary between nature and urban/suburban development b/c once you go north of Santa Clarita there is no development for a while. It doesn't transition to less dense development, to farms, then to nature. It goes from suburban development to nothing at all in a short distance. We're not comparing metro areas here but rather the state so I don't really see what your point is with the metro populations. Also parts of CT are included in a metro area of 20+ million people, larger than anything in CA or the US for that matter. When you're not growing as fast or as by much then of course it's easier and more sustainable.
and those winter water temps are pretty cold, can you even swim in a regular wetsuit in water that cold?
You could easily say the same thing about the Northeast. Also compare CA's population density to CT's and then tell me which one is overcrowded. CT has about 3x as many people per square mile as CA. The ocean is Southern CA is just as warm as the NE during summer as well and much warmer in winter.
and neither can the Atlantic Ocean w/o a storm
I was not trying to put the West Coast down – working for a geo –mapping firm (geo-climate maps), I have spent a lot of years researching climate data….. I know there is a lot of less than accurate information out there
But……..
Actually the ocean is NOT as warm off California (including SOCAL) in the summer as off the coast of the Northeast/ Tri-State area coast (NY/NJ/CT). In fact, once you get to around southern New Jersey southward – the Pacific is much colder than the Atlantic it’s no contest.
The map below shows mean water temps in summer (June – Sept) in the Gulf, Atlantic, and Pacific. As you can see ….from around Lompoc south - the surf temps are in the 60 F to 66 F range, while north of Lompoc the water is freezing (by swimming standards) in the upper 50’s F (wooo baby). By contrast…. the Atlantic Ocean from Rhode Island to New Jersey is in the 68 F to 74 F range (Long Island Sound is even warmer). South of New Jersey the Atlantic really blows away California…. reaching almost 80 F near Virginia Beach. South of that well….. It’s a joke.
The main reason for this is the flow in summer. On the West Coast…. from WA right down to San Diego …the cool water and cool air south of Alaska is pushed down the Pacfic Coast all summer – hence the stratus clouds, cool temps (compared to inland CA), and cold water. By contrast, the huge Azores/Bermuda High east of the Bahamas…pumps that steamy tropical air and warm tropical Gulf Stream along the East Coast - hence the heat, humidity, and beautifully warm ocean.
I always remember when I was a kid - we took a summer family vacation to San Francisco to see relatives. All of us kids had just come back from a weekend at the beach in New Jesery (the surf was 75F)….and we wanted to go to another beach location. So just to shut us up…. my parents told us as soon as we get to a beach area around San Fran – we could go right in the water. As we ran down to the waters edge….my parents were smirking at each other. We jumped in. Whewwwwww!!!! Someone on the beach informed us the surf on that particular day was 53 F ! In July!!!!
I know what the data and average say but it's not how it actually is. Maybe the water temp drops at night or brings it down. Also our currents can shift in an instant and the water temp can drop from 70 to 63 in a day or two then in a few more days be back up to 70. I've seen all the "averages" for water temps in Southern CA and from my experiance and tracking them DAILY over summer, they are warmer than statistics show. San Diego will range from 65 to 75 degrees all summer and even get up to 78. LA and Orange County is 60-75 about during the summer as well with 80 degree readings being recorded in Huntington Beach last summer.
Just look at water temps right now, San Diego Bay and Santa Monica are at 73 degrees. Scripps Pier in La Jolla is 70. LA is at 71. US NODC Coastal Water Temperature Guide
I think out water temperatures can just vary more and swing up and down more so than East Coast temps, which probably brings the average down. During the summer it's usually around 70 in Southern CA. Trust me, I check water temps all the time in summer from several different sites and am at the beach at least 2-4 times a week during summer. Water temps at beaches just 5 miles apart in San Diego can be up to 5-7 degrees cooler or warmer, so I'm always looking for the warmest beach nearby.
Yeah no one swims in NorCal or anywhere north of Santa Barbara w/o a wetsuit, which is one of the reason I don't want to move back to the Bay Area, where I grew up.
But our water temperatures during winter are a good 10-20 degrees warmer. Just like the weather on land, we have less variation btwn summer and winter. Our winters are warmer and summers are cooler along the coast in CA and that applies to both the sea and air temperatures. At least in winter when it gets warm into the 80's we can quickly take a dip into the ocean or at least put your feet in then lay out and warm up on the sand, I don't think you can do that there.
I know what the data and average say but it's not how it actually is. Maybe the water temp drops at night or brings it down. Also our currents can shift in an instant and the water temp can drop from 70 to 63 in a day or two then in a few more days be back up to 70. I've seen all the "averages" for water temps in Southern CA and from my experiance and tracking them DAILY over summer, they are warmer than statistics show. San Diego will range from 65 to 75 degrees all summer and even get up to 78. LA and Orange County is 60-75 about during the summer as well with 80 degree readings being recorded in Huntington Beach last summer.
Just look at water temps right now, San Diego Bay and Santa Monica are at 73 degrees. Scripps Pier in La Jolla is 70. LA is at 71. US NODC Coastal Water Temperature Guide
I think out water temperatures can just vary more and swing up and down more so than East Coast temps, which probably brings the average down. During the summer it's usually around 70 in Southern CA. Trust me, I check water temps all the time in summer from several different sites and am at the beach at least 2-4 times a week during summer. Water temps at beaches just 5 miles apart in San Diego can be up to 5-7 degrees cooler or warmer, so I'm always looking for the warmest beach nearby.
Yeah no one swims in NorCal or anywhere north of Santa Barbara w/o a wetsuit, which is one of the reason I don't want to move back to the Bay Area, where I grew up.
But our water temperatures during winter are a good 10-20 degrees warmer. Just like the weather on land, we have less variation btwn summer and winter. Our winters are warmer and summers are cooler along the coast in CA and that applies to both the sea and air temperatures. At least in winter when it gets warm into the 80's we can quickly take a dip into the ocean or at least put your feet in then lay out and warm up on the sand, I don't think you can do that there.
Since you seem interested…..and I find this very interesting to talk about ……let me ramble a bit further. I have spent my entire life along the coast and surf and swim 12 months a year on here in the Tri-State area and south to Florida. I also have been to the beaches on the Gulf and Pacific coast several times. Most people always seem to think science data is different than it really is. So you’re not alone there.
First - sea and surf temps don’t change a great deal at night or heat up a great deal from the sun in summer (some- but not a lot). As I mentioned above – the prevailing wind flow and currents contribute much more to changes in sea temp. The NOAA map I posted is a 24 mean temp (I would think). From all of the science data I have seen (academically and here at work) - the Pacific surf off southern California is still colder on average summer day…in an average year….than the Atlantic surf off most places in the Tri-State area. Also, as you said - from Santa Barbara northward - well the West Coast is like swimming and surfing in the Bering Sea in comparison to the Tri-State area and the East Coast. Since weather and pressure patterns can be quite different in some years, a day to day comparison…. of two location 3000 miles apart……… can be a bit difficult (to say the least). Meteorological averages are usually based on 30 years of data. Remember, some of those readings like the 70.7 in LA is inside the protected and still water of LA harbor.
However, you are certainly right - currents do shift, eddies, tongues, and pools meander often. I have surfed and went swimming in the Pacific off SOCAL - and one minute it’s 66 F… the next it feels 45 F. However, you must remember, ...there IS NO SOURCE of warm water off California and the West Coast. Look at the first image of current sea temps - for a thousand miles east of California the Pacific is cold. About 80% of coastal California has 14 to 17 C (52 to 62 F) surf from Santa Barbara north and out to sea. A warmer tongue (relatively speaking) of water 18 to 20 C (64 to 69 F) extends south to San Diego.
Notice how only a short distance to the east of San Diego – the water plunges into the 50 F range again. The striking feature of this image to me - is that for 1000 miles out into the Pacific, the ocean is cold, there is no patches, eddies, or swirls of warmer water….it’s one solid block of cold water. Keep in mind - all the blue you see off CA - is flowing south (the Alaska current) along the California coast.
The total opposite is true in on the Atlantic East Coast (the second image). There IS NO SOURCE OF COLD WATER. The subtropical high (Bermuda High) pushes the heat, humidity, and warm ocean waters out of the deep tropics toward the East Coast during the long summer season. The current image from today – shows that from around Rhode Island to south Jersey - the ocean is around 21 C (71 F)…. from south Jesery to Virginia the ocean is 24 – 26 C (75 – 78 F)….. and south of there the Atlantic is about 83 F. Remember summer is only two weeks old ! Again, the most striking (and so opposite of the West Coast) feature of this image - is how for 1000 miles out to sea there is no cold water (or even cool water) off the East Coast out into the Atlantic Ocean. Additionally, (again, opposite of the West Coast), all the reds and greens you see off the East Coast…..are flowing north (the Gulf Stream) along the East Coast. It’s easy to see why most of the time the ocean is warm on the East Coast and cold on the West Coast.
You’re right about the cold season. From late December to late March - of course, the surf and ocean temps are much cooler. From the Long Island to maybe Virginia Beach, VA… surf temps are 44 to 48 F for about 90 days. Many people here do like you guys do on the West coast most of the year – and get the wet suits out. On a 50 F day in February it’s not too bad (well for a few hours, anyway). Of course, as you move south from South Carolina toward Florida, the Atlantic Coast blows away the West Coast…reaching about 80 F even in the dead of winter off Florida (when its 54F off SOCAL). In fact, I like the summers better on the East Coast – I was in CA in summer , low clouds, 69 F, foggy, smoggy, coolish. The East Coast summers feel like your in the tropics - 85 F, thunderstorms, warm ocean water – the hotter and more humid the better. It feels like real summer.
I guess what I was trying to say was from a meteorological standpoint – when your swim in the ocean off California - your in ocean water that was off Alaska a few days ago. When your swimming in the ocean off Rhode Island or the Jesery shore - your ocean water that was in the Bahamas a few days ago. If one needs warm ocean waters – the East Coast is the place to be. Last year we saw dolphins off Ocean City, Maryland. The water just seems so dark and cold off California compared to the East Coast. Sometimes if your on the beach on the East Coast - you can even hear the Caribbean music coming up from the tropics to the south. (O.k. now I’m kidding).
Anyway, enjoy the beach. I’m already burned and scrapped up from the surf and sun and summer is only two weeks old, but I love every minute of it. The hotter, the more humid, the warmer the water, the more I love it. This weekend should be in the 90’s again. I wouldn’t have it any other way. Living near the coast is a gift to anyone no matter where they live.
Hey look on the bright side…all that cold water out West helps keeps this away.
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