[bluecountry]

I had a couple of questions about the recent polling over who is CT's most popular baseball team.


I. Background:

I'm offended by the results. I truly do not see how in 5 years the Red Sox could closed a 14 point gap....this is not a political race full of campaigning.
To me...I always felt CT was a Yankee/NY sports state.
I felt Boston didn't have much/any presence until you got to Hartford...where it was then 50/50...at best. Only in far East CT...the quiet corner and SE CT...did I feel Boston had a noticeable, predominant edge. This seemed to be fair and make perfect sense when one looks at the geography of CT.

You have southern CT...defined as Fairfield County through the greater New Haven region...which is tied to New York through media (TV stations)...metro (metro north)....climate. Therefore you'd figure all of Fairfield and most of New Haven county would be strong Yankee/New York sport country.
Then you have the valley (including Waterbury)...plus Litchfield. This area also is tied to New York by media...metro north..and climate. I see no reason why Boston would have any significant presence when New York is obviously much closer.
Next you have the Greater Hartford region...which lies at the halfway point from New York to Boston. I'd figure here you have CT media only...and it'd make sense this would be 50/50 territory.
As you proceed east one would figure into Tolland Boston would have an edge..but being near Hartford New York still would have a good sized presence.
I would figure Middlesex County might lean to Boston..but areas along the LI sound would stay pro New York.
New London county definitely has that New England small town village feeling...and is closer to places like Providence and Mass than NY...so one figure this area and Windham County would be strong Boston country...but not to the extent that Fairfield County is pro NY...since it's doubtful few here actually commute to Boston while many in Fairfield can take a train to NY.




Thus...my general feeling is:
Fairfield County-NY sports country with hardly any Boston presence since it's less than 30 miles at points to NYC.
New Haven County-Strong NY sports country...increasing Boston presence to the North and East...but towns in the New Haven region including Madison are much more in favor of NY.
Litchfield...rural...but NY sports territory...maybe indifferent to an extent due to rural and tourist quality.
Middlesex...slight edge to NY.
Hartford....50/50...points north and east more Boston...points south and west...more NY.
Tolland.....BOS preference but a good NY presence.
New London/Windham....BOS country but not quite the partisanship Fairfield has towards NY.

[bluecountry]

II. My Summary
Thus...my general feeling is:

-Fairfield County-NY sports country with hardly any Boston presence since it's less than 30 miles at points to NYC.
-New Haven County-Strong NY sports country...increasing Boston presence to the North and East...but towns in the New Haven region including Madison are much more in favor of NY.
-Litchfield...rural...but NY sports territory...maybe indifferent to an extent due to rural and tourist quality.
-Middlesex...slight edge to NY.
-Hartford....50/50...points north and east more Boston...points south and west...more NY.
-Tolland.....BOS preference but a good NY presence.
-New London/Windham....BOS country but not quite the partisanship Fairfield has towards NY.




III. Questions Part I

1) Am I correct..does this accurately portray?

2) If yes...then why is the recent CT poll claiming CT is slightly pro Red Sox?
Is this strictly bandwagon…because the US seems to have a lot more Red Sox fans in general these days…much like they were loaded with Braves fans in the 90s. This makes me wonder if the 2003 data is really more representative of CT…which falls in line with what I feel to make most sense..and the gains of 2008 is just like any popular bandwagon team would make.


3) Further...why is it this map shows all but one small blurb of CT to be pro Boston....in all sports.
Is this accurate or a gross misrepresentation?
CommonCensus Sports Map Project


4) What I really do not understand is the following:
-Why New Haven county claimed to have only an 8% edge for NY..when logically you'd figure it be way higher?
-Why Litchfield claimed to have an edge for Boston...when again logic indicates as stated above it would be for NY?
-Why Middlesex had a slight Boston edge...when you figured it'd be a slight NY edge?
-Why Hartford had a 50-30 edge over NY..when logic figures it would be 50/50 since it's halfway between both cities?
-Why Tolland/New London/Windham had a 60-23 edge over NY..almost what Fairfield has over BOS...when you figure E CT wouldn't be pro BOS to THAT extent since it is not part of the BOS region like Fairfield is to NYC?

Can someone explain?
-Is this just a big flawed data sample by the pollsters...because it makes ZERO sense that Boston would have this much of an advantage in CT when NYC is just as if not closer and is the bigger city influential wise as the CT Poll and CommonCensus make it appear.



5) A couple of things in the article which really bothered me was how the Red Sox have been aggressively campaigning to annex Southern CT.
To me, again, this area is/should be solid NY Country because it's a heck of a lot more like the tri state region and connected than it is to Bos/MA culture.

I find it to be encroachment on the Red Sox that they now have radio affiliates in Hamden and Greenwich.
I don't get why they feel that just because CT is part of NE...that CTers should be Boston fans?
What sense does that make if you can get to NYC in 30 mins from Greenwich?
Didn't the Red Sox front office ever hear of the tri state region...which includes Southern and Western CT?

I was furious to read they took a group of middle schoolers from West Haven on a tour of Fenway to win them over.
This outrageous...when West Haven is well in the tri state region..and nothing like Puritan Mass.

I really am outraged at the arrogance of Theo Epstein and Lucchino who seem to feel anything with a CT zip code is there territory.
I really hope CTers aren't gullible enough to fall for this.

What do you make of this...and do you think future generations will see it be more of a Red Sox state...or is the poll just very fickle?


6) Is there any similar poll about CT and the NFL/NHL/NBA?
-Do they follow similar patterns to MLB?


Thanks...I look forward to full detailed answers from objective and familiar CTers.

[glxyman21]

Where Do Rivals Draw the Line? - New York Times

[shwee]

Originally Posted by bluecountry

II. My Summary
Thus...my general feeling is:

-Fairfield County-NY sports country with hardly any Boston presence since it's less than 30 miles at points to NYC.
-New Haven County-Strong NY sports country...increasing Boston presence to the North and East...but towns in the New Haven region including Madison are much more in favor of NY.
-Litchfield...rural...but NY sports territory...maybe indifferent to an extent due to rural and tourist quality.
-Middlesex...slight edge to NY.
-Hartford....50/50...points north and east more Boston...points south and west...more NY.
-Tolland.....BOS preference but a good NY presence.
-New London/Windham....BOS country but not quite the partisanship Fairfield has towards NY.




III. Questions Part I

1) Am I correct..does this accurately portray?

2) If yes...then why is the recent CT poll claiming CT is slightly pro Red Sox?
Is this strictly bandwagon…because the US seems to have a lot more Red Sox fans in general these days…much like they were loaded with Braves fans in the 90s. This makes me wonder if the 2003 data is really more representative of CT…which falls in line with what I feel to make most sense..and the gains of 2008 is just like any popular bandwagon team would make.


3) Further...why is it this map shows all but one small blurb of CT to be pro Boston....in all sports.
Is this accurate or a gross misrepresentation?
CommonCensus Sports Map Project


4) What I really do not understand is the following:
-Why New Haven county claimed to have only an 8% edge for NY..when logically you'd figure it be way higher?
-Why Litchfield claimed to have an edge for Boston...when again logic indicates as stated above it would be for NY?
-Why Middlesex had a slight Boston edge...when you figured it'd be a slight NY edge?
-Why Hartford had a 50-30 edge over NY..when logic figures it would be 50/50 since it's halfway between both cities?
-Why Tolland/New London/Windham had a 60-23 edge over NY..almost what Fairfield has over BOS...when you figure E CT wouldn't be pro BOS to THAT extent since it is not part of the BOS region like Fairfield is to NYC?

Can someone explain?
-Is this just a big flawed data sample by the pollsters...because it makes ZERO sense that Boston would have this much of an advantage in CT when NYC is just as if not closer and is the bigger city influential wise as the CT Poll and CommonCensus make it appear.



5) A couple of things in the article which really bothered me was how the Red Sox have been aggressively campaigning to annex Southern CT.
To me, again, this area is/should be solid NY Country because it's a heck of a lot more like the tri state region and connected than it is to Bos/MA culture.

I find it to be encroachment on the Red Sox that they now have radio affiliates in Hamden and Greenwich.
I don't get why they feel that just because CT is part of NE...that CTers should be Boston fans?
What sense does that make if you can get to NYC in 30 mins from Greenwich?
Didn't the Red Sox front office ever hear of the tri state region...which includes Southern and Western CT?

I was furious to read they took a group of middle schoolers from West Haven on a tour of Fenway to win them over.
This outrageous...when West Haven is well in the tri state region..and nothing like Puritan Mass.

I really am outraged at the arrogance of Theo Epstein and Lucchino who seem to feel anything with a CT zip code is there territory.
I really hope CTers aren't gullible enough to fall for this.

What do you make of this...and do you think future generations will see it be more of a Red Sox state...or is the poll just very fickle?


6) Is there any similar poll about CT and the NFL/NHL/NBA?
-Do they follow similar patterns to MLB?


Thanks...I look forward to full detailed answers from objective and familiar CTers.

I live in Fairfield County and work in New Haven County. My experience is that there are many more Yankee fans in Fairfield County and many more BoSox fans in New Haven County. Yes, even starting at the county line in Milford.

[Rlemega]

3) Further...why is it this map shows all but one small blurb of CT to be pro Boston....in all sports.
Is this accurate or a gross misrepresentation?
CommonCensus Sports Map Project

I clicked on the NFL page and it said this:
Important: this map is highly inaccurate and should be understood only as a demonstration, and not as any kind of reliable data yet. It is based on only a few thousands of votes spread across all teams, across the country. Areas with virtually no data are shown in gray, and many boundaries are still expected to change their shape drastically. A map with more accurate boundaries will gradually emerge as the number of votes reaches the upper tens of thousands.

Anyways, I'm a Sox fan but its pretty clear that this is because of bandwagon fans. Which ever team has most recently won a ring will be the most popular team in CT.

[bluecountry]

Originally Posted by glxyman21

Where Do Rivals Draw the Line? - New York Times

See that's the thing...your link is what I figured makes most sense.
I've read that before.....however the common census map and the poll contradict it.

Which is correct/accurate?

The poll/map/or linked article?

Originally Posted by shwee

I live in Fairfield County and work in New Haven County. My experience is that there are many more Yankee fans in Fairfield County and many more BoSox fans in New Haven County. Yes, even starting at the county line in Milford.

I don't believe you for one second.
That makes absolutely NO sense and goes against what I've seen in New Haven County.

Why would people in Milford choose Boston over NY...when you get NY stations..and are part of the NY region?
Boston is totally different landscape than Milford...which is the NY tri state region.
Others here...is this guy BSing as I feel and if not, can you explain WHY New Haven County, including Milford, would be this way given logic and common sense?


absurd

[Rich Lee]

I posted that link a while back. Since then, Quinnipiac University has done two more polls. The most recent one, for some reason, was conducted near the mid-point of the season when BOS was in first place. This survey, which also included several political questions, showed Connecticut had switched allegiances (43% BOS; 42% NYY: 2% margin of error).

I am very suspect to its findings since 1) it did include other questions in the poll and 2) the date changed from the first week of May to the end of June. The findings of prior years' polls could be compared to each other for this reason; this one can't.

I agree with the bandwagon theory as well which is common in all sports.

[wavehunter007]

Originally Posted by bluecountry

I had a couple of questions about the recent polling over who is CT's most popular baseball team.


I. Background:

I'm offended by the results. I truly do not see how in 5 years the Red Sox could closed a 14 point gap....this is not a political race full of campaigning.
To me...I always felt CT was a Yankee/NY sports state.
I felt Boston didn't have much/any presence until you got to Hartford...where it was then 50/50...at best. Only in far East CT...the quiet corner and SE CT...did I feel Boston had a noticeable, predominant edge. This seemed to be fair and make perfect sense when one looks at the geography of CT.

You have southern CT...defined as Fairfield County through the greater New Haven region...which is tied to New York through media (TV stations)...metro (metro north)....climate. Therefore you'd figure all of Fairfield and most of New Haven county would be strong Yankee/New York sport country.
Then you have the valley (including Waterbury)...plus Litchfield. This area also is tied to New York by media...metro north..and climate. I see no reason why Boston would have any significant presence when New York is obviously much closer.
Next you have the Greater Hartford region...which lies at the halfway point from New York to Boston. I'd figure here you have CT media only...and it'd make sense this would be 50/50 territory.
As you proceed east one would figure into Tolland Boston would have an edge..but being near Hartford New York still would have a good sized presence.
I would figure Middlesex County might lean to Boston..but areas along the LI sound would stay pro New York.
New London county definitely has that New England small town village feeling...and is closer to places like Providence and Mass than NY...so one figure this area and Windham County would be strong Boston country...but not to the extent that Fairfield County is pro NY...since it's doubtful few here actually commute to Boston while many in Fairfield can take a train to NY.




Thus...my general feeling is:
Fairfield County-NY sports country with hardly any Boston presence since it's less than 30 miles at points to NYC.
New Haven County-Strong NY sports country...increasing Boston presence to the North and East...but towns in the New Haven region including Madison are much more in favor of NY.
Litchfield...rural...but NY sports territory...maybe indifferent to an extent due to rural and tourist quality.
Middlesex...slight edge to NY.
Hartford....50/50...points north and east more Boston...points south and west...more NY.
Tolland.....BOS preference but a good NY presence.
New London/Windham....BOS country but not quite the partisanship Fairfield has towards NY.

One of the things many people forget is that Boston (New England) is really a small market compared to big American metros like NYC, LA, Chicago…etc. Because of this - Boston sports teams and Boston media (print, TV, radio.. etc.), market much more aggressively in CT (which they consider vital to survival) than do market interests in the massive NYC market. In other words….. NYC is so big, creates so much of its own heat and energy (Worldwide), it could care less about what sports teams, media, or news people in CT follow. This is not to say, the NYC area news and TV don’t cover southern Connecticut news - it’s just not life or death to them - as it is to the small Boston market. Metro Boston is an area of about 7 million people….metro NYC is an area of 22 million people. Once you get north of Connecticut (3.5 million)…… all the other states to the north have a small population (about 1.5 million or less), with the exception of Massachusetts itself (5.8 million). In terms of market share – Boston teams and media are a mouse next to a 50-foot giant. NYC is the largest metropolitan area on the North American Continent…not exactly the place to be if you’re the competition (lol).

I also agree that maps and polls are not always accurate. I take myself for example. Living in the New London county area, I follow New York sports team (not a really big sports fan) have been to Giants Stadium, Shea Stadium, Madison Square Garden, I attend NYC events, even belong to a NYC/Long Island surfing foundation……yet I have only been to Boston a few times in my life. Most of my family live in New Haven County and follow NYC news and sports teams. In fact, my father at 79, has actually never even been to Boston – only Cape Cod.

My point is that I think Boston sports teams, media, even commercial interests have to market themselves s much, much harder to survive than the NYC area. A final testament to this is LIN COMMUNTIONS in New Haven (WTNH – 8).

LIN is a Boston/Providence based TV/Communications company. I have been told by two different people that have worked at Channel 8 offices – that there is a intense and directed attempt by Channel 8 to stamp out anything having to do with the NYC area (news, sports, events) and hype up anything Boston related (this coming from headquarters up north). Channel 8 only reports on NYC sports teams because of the obvious absurdity of not doing so, but they draw the line there. They refuse to show anything having to do with the NYC area, even though southern Connecticut is far more connected to the NYC area then it ever will be to Boston 150 miles to the north.

As I have pointed out before…look at the silly position of the weather map – Long Island (only 15 miles away) is almost off the screen. While the map shows Vermont (160 miles from New Haven and most of southern CT), as if it’s closer to WTNH. Please someone tell Geoff Fox he would/t look so silly all the time with the map of Connecticut down near his knees if they centered it. Of course they can’t do that because it will show more of the NYC area and less of Boston (New England).

It’s guerrilla-marketing people, pure and simple. You don’t root for the baseball team you choose .…you root for the team they MARKET TOWARD YOU. You think Jim Calhoune twangy New England accent is an accident (the calmmm-caaast-tripply-play)?

Fight the power….or in this case….. the marketing!

[shwee]

Originally Posted by bluecountry

See that's the thing...your link is what I figured makes most sense.
I've read that before.....however the common census map and the poll contradict it.

Which is correct/accurate?

The poll/map/or linked article?





I don't believe you for one second.
That makes absolutely NO sense and goes against what I've seen in New Haven County.

Why would people in Milford choose Boston over NY...when you get NY stations..and are part of the NY region?
Boston is totally different landscape than Milford...which is the NY tri state region.
Others here...is this guy BSing as I feel and if not, can you explain WHY New Haven County, including Milford, would be this way given logic and common sense?


absurd

Wrong... People in Milford get New Haven and Hartford stations, which primarily cover the Boston teams and watch the BoSox on NESN. By the way, I'm a huge Yankees fan and hate the BoSox to no end. Don't hate the messenger.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by shwee

Wrong... People in Milford get New Haven and Hartford stations, which primarily cover the Boston teams and watch the BoSox on NESN. By the way, I'm a huge Yankees fan and hate the BoSox to no end. Don't hate the messenger.

Milford gets both CT and NY stations. Most people east of Bridgeport watch the CT stations but even in the Valley, NY's ABC is channel 8, NBC is 4 and CBS is 3. The CT stations are on higher channels. I know my family in Oxford and Shelton watch mostly NY stations - not by choice, but because it's on the more watched channels.

I do agree that WTNH has a specific agenda and it's very obvious. I can see why though - even lower Fairfield County is about halfway between New Haven and NYC.

That said, NYC stations do give CT's daily news - just not as in-depth as CT stations but that's because NYC covers a much wider area. Even Long Island and New Jersey have their own, more local news.