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Old 08-14-2008, 07:29 PM
 
Location: New England
8,155 posts, read 20,929,323 times
Reputation: 3338

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There is one MAJOR problem with this decision that overshadow's most here IMO:

A little group (Sarcasm) of people known as MS-13 are setting up shop in "sanctuary cities" around the nation because of...well their sanctuary policies!

They are THE most brutal gang in the USA to date.

Expect a bloodbath in Hartford for turf wars. The state police won't save this one. Nope.


Mara Salvatrucha Gang - MS-13 (http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/profiles/ms13/ - broken link)

Illegal Immigration, Sanctuary Cities and Gangs (http://www.knowgangs.com/blog/aug06/illegal.php - broken link)
When an MS-13 gangster illegally immigrates to our country, once they make their way into a city that has a sanctuary policy (such as Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington D. C., New York, and many more), they can live there with little fear of ever being deported back to their country.

If they are stopped by police officers and arrested for a crime, as a United States citizen you would assume that the gang member would be deported—but you’re wrong.
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Old 08-15-2008, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,479 posts, read 6,735,587 times
Reputation: 5883
JViello,

If the state police are called into Hartford to assist in quelling the violence do you know if they would be subject to Sanctuary City ordinances that don't follow state law?

Thanks for the heads up on MS-13. I sent it to my state representative and personally talked to him about this problem. I'd like to see this sanctuary city issue discussed by our state senators and representatives to preemptively cut off mass integration of these types of ordinances that the buffoons in Hartford are proposing.

I can't believe that we have come to a point in our country's history where we create ordinances (laws) to undermine constitutional laws. Where is the outrage?
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Old 08-15-2008, 06:50 AM
 
Location: New England
8,155 posts, read 20,929,323 times
Reputation: 3338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
JViello,

If the state police are called into Hartford to assist in quelling the violence do you know if they would be subject to Sanctuary City ordinances that don't follow state law?

Thanks for the heads up on MS-13. I sent it to my state representative and personally talked to him about this problem. I'd like to see this sanctuary city issue discussed by our state senators and representatives to preemptively cut off mass integration of these types of ordinances that the buffoons in Hartford are proposing.

I can't believe that we have come to a point in our country's history where we create ordinances (laws) to undermine constitutional laws. Where is the outrage?
That is a GOOD question. I'm not sure if they are bound by city ordinance or if state trumps city. Hmmm.

I have to give the MS-13 credit to Brad Davis on AM1360 mornings. He brought it up and my jaw dropped when it dawned on me about those guys...I knew about them, but it never dawned on me - duh!

I can't believe it either my friend...I'm outraged, rest assured.
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,479 posts, read 6,735,587 times
Reputation: 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
That is a GOOD question. I'm not sure if they are bound by city ordinance or if state trumps city. Hmmm.

I have to give the MS-13 credit to Brad Davis on AM1360 mornings. He brought it up and my jaw dropped when it dawned on me about those guys...I knew about them, but it never dawned on me - duh!

I can't believe it either my friend...I'm outraged, rest assured.
Unfortunately there just doesn't seem to be enough people outraged enough to actually go out of their way to want to do anything about it.

It has to start with the community itself as most suburbanites will not involve themselves in Hartford's matters as they see the people largely responsible for the problems that exist.

Most of those that have to work in downtown Hartford get in and out as quickly as possible with a mindful concern for their own personal safety. If the violence problem permeates the downtown business district then it's all over. Businesses will move out in short order. Mayor Perez better be mindful of that fact. If his city council's sanctuary city ordinance is enacted and the gangbangers are terrorizing the business district then its over. Hartford's downtown dreams, which are already plagued by the shootings, will be completely gone.
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,479 posts, read 6,735,587 times
Reputation: 5883
I am sickened by the prospective ordinance proposed by the Hartford City Council.

As a child I enjoyed growing up in idyllic East Hartford, a safe, family-oriented, community where few locked their doors and everyone I knew had a strong family.

My mother was a teacher in East Hartford for 38 years and continued to tutor for another 10 years until her death in 2002.

I graduated from George J. Penney High School in 1981. In the mid 80s as Hartford tore down the projects a mass inflow of former Hartford residents looked for inexpensive rents in East Hartford. Many of these newcomers were single mothers who had children as teens and hadn't completed high school. More often than not "Fathers" were not a part of the household. Sadly, Burnside Avenue went from a business district where I used to walk from my grandparent's house to the drug store to get a candy bar to a shady hangout where people bought drugs from drug dealers.

My friends' families started moving out in mass numbers as crime increased and the schools went down the tubes. Surprisingly, the majority of the teachers who provided the quality education that my friends and I received were still there offering their same quality teaching yet the students they once taught were not resulting in East Hartford quickly sinking to near the bottom of performance on a state basis and failing to attract the solid middle-class families that once dominated the community.

When things get bad most people will just leave instead of fighting for their community. It takes too much energy and is extremely disheartening and painful to watch your community disintegrate. Insane decisions like the sanctuary city ordinance, end up being the final straw for the holdouts.

At some point in the near future people will not be able to run from these problems in Connecticut because we are just too small a state to escape the frag. It won't happen until we all start having honest conversations and leave the PC rhetoric out of the discussions.

Last edited by Lincolnian; 08-15-2008 at 07:33 AM..
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
9,883 posts, read 14,220,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
I knew it was just a matter of time before we would see this type of lunacy. A couple of years ago I went to a Carlos Santana concert at the Meadows in Hartford and after speaking almost exclusively in Spanish for some time Carlos Santana came out and started proclaiming Hartford the Spanish Capital of the Northeast. Elizabeth Horton Sheff and Mayor Perez handed him the key to the city and addressed the crowd first in Spanish and then in English.

Considering 95% of the population was not Spanish-speaking and had come to hear the classics from the 1970s that Santana was famous for producing not unheard of Spanish and African tunes that were played exclusively for the first half of the show, most people including myself headed for the door at intermission.

There is nothing wrong with the celebration of culture but to politically force-feed people a message that Hartford is more important as a Spanish-speaking capital for legal and illegal residents than it is as our state's capital is wrong.

For more information see City OKs Immigration Ordinance for an article written in the Hartford Courant.

For more of my opinion on this issue go to the UB Blog (http://www.unitebristol.blogspot.com/ - broken link).
I agree with you 100%.
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:57 PM
 
638 posts, read 1,844,904 times
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I'm researching this elsewhere (overlapping problems).
http://www.city-data.com/forum/4871344-post45.html

I think this is in violation of (or overridden by) The Patriot Act, as immigration status is the responsibility of all law enforcement.

If you have any legal research regarding The Patriot Act, and attempts to create sancturary cities, I'd appreciate the cross-post in my thread because in my layman's interpretation, I think these ordinances are made null and void by Federal Law.
Quote:
The Patriot Act
. . all law enforcement and intelligence officers as determined by regulation to be responsible for investigation or identification of aliens admitted to the United States pursuant to a visa.
Conspiracy to, or, aiding and abetting illegal aliens is also a Federal Crime.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode08/usc_sup_01_8_10_12_20_II_30_VIII.html

You're going to have to get a copy of it from the council, or mayor's office, but if someone could post the exact legal verbiage used in these ordinances, I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Last edited by r601020; 08-15-2008 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 08-16-2008, 08:38 PM
 
83 posts, read 225,763 times
Reputation: 56
I listened to that Brad Davis radio show the other day as well (not by choice). The MS13 crap is in my opinion a scare tactic and really an exaggeration designed to get people hyped up about this issue. The fact of the matter is we have NEVER used citizenship status as qualifying criteria for the dispersion of public aid, and investigation of immigration status is a civil (not criminal) matter. This ordinance does very little, if anything at all, to change the status-quo, and in my opinion those getting their feathers ruffled about it are doing so simply because this is a hot-button issue that is fun to talk about.

The impetus behind this ordinance is supposedly to encourage illegal immigrants to cooperate with police during criminal investigations (without the fear of getting deported). Last I checked we had eleven people shot within a weekend. Maybe it isn't such a bad thing that we give a little breathing room so that police can do a better job investigating and deterring murders.

There are two sides to every story. In my opinion people like Brad Davis do a really good job of showcasing only one side, and often inciting anger that might not quite be necessary.
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:46 AM
 
Location: New England
8,155 posts, read 20,929,323 times
Reputation: 3338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartford Medic View Post
I listened to that Brad Davis radio show the other day as well (not by choice). The MS13 crap is in my opinion a scare tactic and really an exaggeration designed to get people hyped up about this issue. The fact of the matter is we have NEVER used citizenship status as qualifying criteria for the dispersion of public aid, and investigation of immigration status is a civil (not criminal) matter.
Well few things here.

1. The MS-13 points are NOT crap. This gang is spreading around the country in sanctuary cities because of their sanctuary (non reporting) status. That's a fact. It's not "hate". What makes you think Hartford will be immune from that?

2. Breaking the LAW is not a civil issue. It is a criminal issue. People here illegally are breaking the law and you are saying we should just "look aside?"

We are not talking about going on immigration raids here. We are talking about if someone is picked up for doing ILLEGAL behavior - as part of checking for warrants and other things, we check their immigration status.

What amazes me is that people would even challenge that! You don't challenge that a cop when calling in your license checks to see if you have any outstanding warrants...why would you challenge to see if someone has a right to even be in this country? To me, it should be standard policy.

3. Social Services requires things like social security numbers and employment records. If you are not here legally you don't have a SSN or W2 unless you are forging documents...which again, is breaking the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartford Medic View Post
This ordinance does very little, if anything at all, to change the status-quo, and in my opinion those getting their feathers ruffled about it are doing so simply because this is a hot-button issue that is fun to talk about.
Thanks for the insult. No it's NOT fun to talk about it. I care about where I live. I care if the city door was just opened to one of the most vicous gangs in our history, I care if people who do not belong here are taking jobs from legal citizens, I care that some of our "blue collar" industries will be pushed into the toilet due to people working in the shadows for slave wages.

I care about upholding our laws. We can not have anarchy in our land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartford Medic View Post
The impetus behind this ordinance is supposedly to encourage illegal immigrants to cooperate with police during criminal investigations (without the fear of getting deported).
You can't be serious. That's like bribing a child with cookies to tell you who went into the cookie jar. Give me a break...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartford Medic View Post
There are two sides to every story. In my opinion people like Brad Davis do a really good job of showcasing only one side, and often inciting anger that might not quite be necessary.
That is a false accusation toward Brad Davis. Brad has done more civic community work for the city of Hartford than any broadcaster I know. He is also one of the most fair, balanced guys I have heard on the radio in a long time.

If you took even 5 minutes to see how much he has invested in the lives of children in the city you would retract your comment and apologize.
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Old 08-17-2008, 10:50 AM
 
83 posts, read 225,763 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
The MS-13 points are NOT crap. This gang is spreading around the country in sanctuary cities because of their sanctuary (non reporting) status. That's a fact. It's not "hate". What makes you think Hartford will be immune from that?
I didn't say the gang doesn't exist. What I said was that the assumption that this ordinance is going to bring immigrant gangs to this city in droves is maybe a little ridiculous. This ordinance alone does not preclude "reporting" and does not make Hartford a "sanctuary city."


Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
Breaking the LAW is not a civil issue. It is a criminal issue. People here illegally are breaking the law and you are saying we should just "look aside?"
The ordinance does not say that police cannot inquire about immigration status during the investigation of a crime. What it actually says is that police cannot detain or question people SOLELY on immigration status. Meaning that if someone breaks the law - fine - they are open to investigation. If they call in to report other crimes, or talk to the police as a witness, they can't be questioned about their own status. Doesn't that make sense? Right now we have illegal immigrants living in blighted housing, afraid to report code violations to authorities under threats that they me be deported because of it. The result? Unreported violations, unsafe housing, and residents afraid to talk to the police. Let's let these people report crimes. Let's let them be a part of the community in this respect. Let's "catch them" as illegal immigrants through some other means.
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