Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I found an interesting article outlining the implications of climate change on our state and some interesting graphics to go along with it. Climate change is real, regardless of whether or not you believe it to be the cause of man or nature... the western CT, northern/eastern NJ, and southeastern NY area looks poised to get pretty warm. The same climate as Savannah, GA? That would be great (without flooding/storms/sea-level rise of course)! I would love to have palmettos, live oak, and Spanish moss in my yard!
Climate warming Globally in the far past has been totally from increased Co2 in the Atmosphere-
The ebb and low of warm periods and ice ages are almost totally predicated on Co2 amounts.
the current warming is also from rising Co2 in the atmosphere- this time the increase of Carbon is mostly human based. At least 90% as per the IPCC. Actually we are currently in a cooling period- but the human based Co2 has changed this. http://www.ipcc.ch/
Last edited by skytrekker; 09-06-2008 at 03:03 PM..
Climate warming Globally in the far past has been totally from increased Co2 in the Atmosphere-
The ebb and low of warm periods and ice ages are almost totally predicated on Co2 amounts.
the current warming is also from rising Co2 in the atmosphere- this time the increase of Carbon is mostly human based. At least 90% as per the IPCC. Actually we are currently in a cooling period- but the human based Co2 has changed this. IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
Sigh...here we go again.
So why was the arctic subtropical supposedly before man or the modern industrial age was known. What raised the CO2 levels then?
"Arctic's tropical past uncovered
By Rebecca Morelle
Science reporter, BBC News
The first detailed analysis of an extraordinary climatic and biological record from the seabed near the North Pole shows that 55 million years ago the Arctic Ocean was much warmer than scientists imagined — a Floridian year-round average of 74 degrees." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/01/sc...01climate.html
"UK: June 1, 2006
LONDON - Sediment drilled from the floor beneath the Arctic Ocean holds prehistoric climate records that show Arctic temperatures reached subtropical levels about 55 million years ago, according to research reported on Wednesday.
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...2006/story.htm (broken link)
"Scientists say Arctic once was tropical
Associated Press, 1 June 2006
"Though the ground is frozen for 1,900 feet down from the surface at Prudhoe Bay, everywhere the oil companies drilled around this area they discovered an ancient tropical forest. It was in frozen state, not in petrified state. It is between 1,100 and 1,700 feet down. There are palm trees, pine trees, and tropical foliage in great profusion. In fact, they found them lapped all over each other, just as though they had fallen in that position."
Lindsey Williams, The Energy Non-Crisis, 2nd edition (Kasilof, Alaska: Worth Publishing Co., 1980), p. 54.
The SCIENCE & ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY PROJECT is a good start to get a counter point of view.
As the debate unfolds, it has become increasingly clear that –- contrary to the conventional wisdom -- there does not exist today a general scientific consensus about the importance of greenhouse warming from rising levels of carbon dioxide. In fact, many climate specialists now agree that actual observations from weather satellites show no global warming whatsoever--in direct contradiction to computer model results.
THE LEIPZIG DECLARATION ON GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE REVISITED (http://www.sepp.org/policy%20declarations/LDrevised.html - broken link)
See who put their name on that statement here:
Leipzig Declaration: List of Signers (http://www.sepp.org/policy%20declarations/LDsigs.html - broken link)
One of the founders of SEPP is the former president of the National Academy of Sciences. I mean, you know - he's just some "schelp" looking to get some recognition and whatnot so he might be "lying".
Lets have some real facts- not meaningless links that do not answer the questions offered by the OP or the Union of Concerned Scientists----your links do not discuss climate change, carbon based fuels- as the scientific method would say-garbage in garbage out. All of your links offer really nothing, some our 'dead'---lets have some empirical posts please.
I want to see a history of earths climate- what has caused ice ages- and warm periods in the past- the far distant past- warming in the past has been totally predicated on carbon increases, as well as a shift in the earths orbit around the sun.
The latter has a far longer time lag- since the earths orbit is not circular but elliptical.
Currently- The northern hemisphere's summer sees the earth at its farthest distance from the sun (aphelion)
Which is the warmest for us- but is winter 'down under'.
Our Spring and Summer in the northern hemisphere last longer then the southern hemisphere.
The aspects of climate change over many millions of years can be predicated on the vagaries of earths eccentric orbit- but also from Co2- in the past sulfur from volcanic explosions and other earthly emissions have caused warming.
warming & ice ages are caused by the earths non circular orbit & induced Co2 both planetary-as in the distant past, and recent-human caused - the former having a far more lag time, then the easily induced Co2 which are far more recent at the advent of the industrial age.
Last edited by skytrekker; 09-07-2008 at 12:09 PM..
Lets have some real facts- not meaningless links that do not answer the questions offered by the OP or the Union of Concerned Scientists
What real facts would you like? The one's that say the arctic used to be tropical before man "spewed" CO2? Oh right, that's exactly what I shared.
The OP seems to think it's not debatable. I think it is. I shared a link with an opposing viewpoint. I realize you may wish to bloviate unchallenged (Didn't know you were a scientist BTW) but the idea of debate and learning is seeing ALL the data...and I'll add to that, in this age of bias and ideology...WHERE the data comes from and who supports it.
I have a relative who's a well-respected atmospheric scientist, and while I lack the training (and the memory) to repeat everything he's told me over the years, suffice it to say that he was pretty convincing. No serious scientist will claim to know exactly what's going on to the last detail, but the basic idea is that (a) the earth is unequivocally trending warmer, and (b) our actions, at least with regard to outputting CO2, can only increase that trend (by whatever degree).
It's true that there have been times in the earth's past that things have been crazier; one big solar increase, or other "black swan" incident, could totally disrupt all the models. But saying there are variables we can't account for doesn't invalidate all our attempts to be better stewards of the planet.
Similarly, it's true that there are people on the fringes who have an agenda, and who want to basically de-technologize the entire world. But there are fringes to every movement and ideology. There are always people who have an agenda that colors their ability to parse the facts, even if that agenda is "I want to have the biggest house and the fastest car in my neighborhood, and to make a hell of a lot of noise, and I don't want anyone telling me what to do".
Anyway, to my mind, instead of wrangling about politics, I like to frame the whole issue as one of frugality, and leaving the "campsite" the way you found it. You don't throw out what you can reuse; you don't consume what you don't need; you don't make a mess without cleaning it up. If we're driving vehicles that belch a lot of crap into the air, it's better that they don't, even though it's cheaper (at least in the short term) to let them do it. If we're worried that this'll put us at a disadvantage vs. China, well, our leaders are already happily selling us out to China in a dozen other ways, and I'd sooner see those corrected first.
Getting back to the topic at hand, it's simplistic to think that global warming would make the tri-state community "warmer" per se; more likely, it would lead to freakier and freakier weather -- heatwaves in the summer, blizzards in the winter, and really dramatic shifts -- the kind of weather, in other words, that can wreck crops.
Of course, speaking from a New Englander's perspective, that's our weather already, so if it got worse, we'd really all be going nuts!
So why was the arctic subtropical supposedly before man or the modern industrial age was known. What raised the CO2 levels then?
Simple, because global warming is a scam so anti-capitalists and snake oil salesman like Al Gore can get rich by skimming billions while transferring American tax payers dollars to other countries.
And even Kellie Pickler can become a "concerned scientist" for only a $35 membership fee.
I have a relative who's a well-respected atmospheric scientist, and while I lack the training (and the memory) to repeat everything he's told me over the years, suffice it to say that he was pretty convincing. No serious scientist will claim to know exactly what's going on to the last detail, but the basic idea is that (a) the earth is unequivocally trending warmer, and (b) our actions, at least with regard to outputting CO2, can only increase that trend (by whatever degree).
It's true that there have been times in the earth's past that things have been crazier; one big solar increase, or other "black swan" incident, could totally disrupt all the models. But saying there are variables we can't account for doesn't invalidate all our attempts to be better stewards of the planet.
Similarly, it's true that there are people on the fringes who have an agenda, and who want to basically de-technologize the entire world. But there are fringes to every movement and ideology. There are always people who have an agenda that colors their ability to parse the facts, even if that agenda is "I want to have the biggest house and the fastest car in my neighborhood, and to make a hell of a lot of noise, and I don't want anyone telling me what to do".
Anyway, to my mind, instead of wrangling about politics, I like to frame the whole issue as one of frugality, and leaving the "campsite" the way you found it. You don't throw out what you can reuse; you don't consume what you don't need; you don't make a mess without cleaning it up. If we're driving vehicles that belch a lot of crap into the air, it's better that they don't, even though it's cheaper (at least in the short term) to let them do it. If we're worried that this'll put us at a disadvantage vs. China, well, our leaders are already happily selling us out to China in a dozen other ways, and I'd sooner see those corrected first.
Getting back to the topic at hand, it's simplistic to think that global warming would make the tri-state community "warmer" per se; more likely, it would lead to freakier and freakier weather -- heatwaves in the summer, blizzards in the winter, and really dramatic shifts -- the kind of weather, in other words, that can wreck crops.
Of course, speaking from a New Englander's perspective, that's our weather already, so if it got worse, we'd really all be going nuts!
Wow...well said, I don't think I can find a single point I disagree with.
I use the term "conservationist" to describe myself. It's the "use it responsibly" mindset.
I do believe if there was a situation where it was a human or a toad. The toad gets axed. Sorry. But, if we could avoid that from happening without reinventing the wheel...why shouldn't we?
I'm totally with you on the freaky weather thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastalrap
Simple, because global warming is a scam so anti-capitalists and snake oil salesman like Al Gore can get rich by skimming billions while transferring American tax payers dollars to other countries.
And even Kellie Pickler can become a "concerned scientist" for only a $35 membership fee.
Thanks for your great post BTW
LOL Thanks for the kind words.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
