[JViello]

Originally Posted by CTHere

Well, that means 1 of two things. Either you're loaded (because $200 in my books is a lot) or you dont have many to buy for.

We had a list of 19 people this year.(15 family) 5 of them agreed not to exchange with us. Wife & I didn't even exchange with ourselves. Coupons, deals, used items, Total spent $150. That comes out to about $10 per person.

Do you cut your own hair?

Do you wash dishes in cold water so you dont use the hot water?

Like I said - I will make your head spin. Best of luck with your business, we do need you to stay afloat and continue success. I gotta go collect more snow to do my laundry.

You think I'm kidding huh?

No, we are not "loaded" but I'm not going to sit here and lie and say we couldn't have spent $2000.00 instead of $200.00. $200.00 is not a lot to spend for family. We don't spend a lot because we celebrate Christmas for the meaning and not for "stuff.

Why could I have spent $2000.00 and not broke a sweat? Simple. I do my best to live on a "gold" standard and not a "debt" standard. Do you know what that means? I took $2200.00 and instead of buying wii's and "stuff" and paid off a debt. It seemed more appropriate.

In fact, one of the reasons I'm not sweating a slow down is I saw the writing on the wall and for the past 16 months I've paid down about $30,000 in debt and am down to only one company lease of $373.00 a month. Yea, it cut into our marketing budget etc for 09 but I could go for months without a dime right now and keep my guys with a steady paycheck.

It's not a bad place to be.

Originally Posted by CTHere

As far as housing..I'm an electrician/ real estate investor, so I know whats happening out there. Why should people spend $20,000 on their home if they'll only get back $7,000 now a days? Makes no sense.

Re-read my post above. Investing in your home to get a return is foolish IMO.

I will/am going to spend $20,000 on my house because we WANT TO for family and other reasons. I don't give a flip if it adds $10.00 to the value. That's not why I'm doing it.

I'm doing it so we have a large room for family,friend and church gatherings. To me having the whole family over and communing together is worth more than sweating wether or not I'll get my return. I have other investment vehicles for that.

Originally Posted by andthentherewere3

Well, call the current mess with the economy what you will, but we are in serious financial trouble if things don't improve. My dh has his own small custom carpentry business, (no employees), but people are not wanting to spend the money on their homes right now. Because of people's fears they are spending less, which in turn affects business, and many businesses are going under. If we're not already in a recession we may soon be if people don't start spending again.

That's a tough place to be. But I will say this, perhaps your husband should start to change his business model to reflect the economy - and I don't mean because it's bad, but that it's different and money is still be spent, it's just being spent in a different manner. Businesses catering to the "luxury" purchase right now are going to have a tough go at it.

I'm a borderline need/want type of business. More towards the need for commercial and want towards residential. You know what? My commercial business has ramped up much stronger then it's ever been while the residential market has gotten softer. It's almost a wash.

I wish you and your husband the best. Think about what I said, seriously. Yea repairing a deck isn't the same as doing a mahogany built in but it's work and puts $ in the account.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by Rich Lee

This is completely true.

Early Retirement, Early Death?

This is only one study. Many others show similar data.

I just caught that. Nice article! Thanks.

Originally Posted by nish2006

Probably the most interesting thread I've followed in a while, definitely made more readable by the timely insertions from my fellow Stratford resident.

As a family that moved to the US three years ago (the wife's British, I'm South Asian), we've often talked about the American way of life and how it differs from other countries in the developed world.

I don't know if some here realize it, but for the last 50 years you have enjoyed one of the highest standards of living & quality of life for probably the lowest cost. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that - it made this one of the best places on the planet to live & raise children, but the downside was the level of expectation it bred in every generation. Nowhere in the world do low-to-middle income families live in homes of the kind we have here, nor do people have the spending power and appetite for consumption (albeit driven by a ridiculously skewed credit system, that is only now correcting itself) like Americans. I say this objectively, in the politest way possible. As JV remarked earlier, to consider a home your primary investment is a recipe for disaster in any economy, when things slow down. Real estate is one of the prime movers in any economy, but it moves both ways in value - hence the need to keep primary residences out of the equation. If these residences were acquired through subprime loans to begin with, the residents have been on a slippery slope for a while, but human greed is a powerful force when coupled with a desire for a roof over one's head.

I'll try to cut this short and say this much : From where I'm standing, this country is undergoing a period of belt tightening that is bound to be uncomfortable, but it hardly seems to be a full-blown recession. Of course there will be disagreement - people are bound to be affected to different degrees, based on their economic standing and past lifestyle. The markets are correcting themselves, and changes at home and work will be inevitable. But it will take a long time (if that ever happens) for living standards here to even resemble those of similar-income families in Western Europe and affluent parts of Asia. My wife was born & raised in a nation that gave this world the Industrial Revolution, and she has never ever seen the levels of luxury, copious consumption and sadly, entitlement witnessed here, among families and individuals that wouldn't have a hope in hell of enjoying such a lifestyle anywhere else. I guess it was great while it lasted, and now its over. As my grandfather used to say, "Don't waste your breath raging against the machine - we helped to create it. Adapt !"

Sir, if I could reach through this screen and shake your hand I would. That is one of the best posts I've seen in a long long time.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and view. Thumbs up!

[toddb]

Originally Posted by CTHere

Food prices higher because farmers are quitting?

Farmers rarely quit - there are so many tax subsidies they are doing fine. Or, a huge farming 'collective' or conglomerate bought them out. Or, more likely, food prices are higher because so much of our crops are either being redirected to help alternative fuels or are just flat out being exported to countries that will pay.

Originally Posted by CTHere

GDP is almost negative but thats because nobody is visiting this country?

Also not the cause of GDP stagnating. Consumer spending accounts for 2/3 of GDP, and people just aren't buying all the crap that they used to. Maybe people are actually starting to save some $$ for a change...that would be nice. And there are plenty of people visiting our country - the dollar is so cheap compared to other currencies that it's a bargain for them. I have friends in the UK who, when the pound was at 2:1, would fly to NY for the weekend with an empty suitcase, do their clothing shopping, then fly home and it would still be cheaper than buying locally.

Originally Posted by CTHere

Job losses the worst since 1945 but we never had a recession since then.

Recent recessions:

• January-July 1980 and July 1981-November 1982: 2 years total
• July 1990-March 1991: 8 months
• March 2001-November 2001: 8 months
• December 2007-December 2008: 12 months and counting*

* Note that this latest recession doesn't meet the traditional two quarter drop in GDP, yet it is considered a recession by the NBER.

Originally Posted by CTHere

Unemployment rate highest since 1993 but thats normal since we're more populated now.

By rate do you mean total # of people, or the percentage? Some more stats for you.....

1993 6.91
1994 6.10
1995 5.59
1996 5.41
1997 4.94
1998 4.50
1999 4.22
2000 3.97
2001 4.76
2002 5.78
2003 5.99
2004 5.53
2005 5.08
2006 4.63
2007 4.61
2008 Nov - 6.7%

Originally Posted by CTHere

Ahh forget it, not worth it. Notice I didn't mention the banks or autos going bankrupt, first time since.....

Lets hope you're not affected by all this... Lets all stick together.

Banks are nowhere near what they were during the S&L scandals, let alone anywhere near major trouble. They made a lot of stupid bets on 2nd, 3rd and 4th layer securities based on questionable mortgages, simply because they thought they could strip out the risk by spreading the bad mortgages across a lot of securities.

Many investment managers go for the quick buck because thats what the common person likes to see - huge short term gains. But, they did this at the expense of longer term stability and growth. Unfortunately this is what happens with large public companies as well - people focus so closely on quarterly results that it forces leadership to make decisions for these results and not focus on strategic planning.

Citi, for example laid off about 20% of its staff last year (total of ~60k people worldwide)...within 18 months they will have re-filled at least half of those positions, at an expense (recruiting, training, etc.) much higher than if they just maintained their staff through the lean times and had them take a temporary pay cut (or reduce the 200% + bonuses) until "times were better".

All that being said, I sure hope people are spending less than $1 for every $1 earned -- even if it's $.95 spent, saving that 5% would make a difference in the long term...

For those of you in the home improvement/maintenance/construction business, I feel for you right now. I'm sure business was booming for the few years prior to '08, and I hope you saved enough so that you can survive through this temporary slow time. With interest rates so low, its only a matter of time until the market starts to pick up steam and people start doing improvements again.

As for Christmas gifts, a couple of years ago when my wife and I were saving for our wedding we asked her family to do a secret santa, and set a limit on spending. That way, we only buy 1 (or a few) nice gifts for 1 person and don't spend a lot of $$. It's a good way to cut back on your spending of 'stuff', and it's a fun game guessing who was your secret santa.

And yes, I cut my own hair. OK, my wife helps, but still. Saves me $20 every 4-6 weeks.

[nish2006]

Originally Posted by JViello

I just caught that. Nice article! Thanks.



Sir, if I could reach through this screen and shake your hand I would. That is one of the best posts I've seen in a long long time.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and view. Thumbs up!

Consider it done. Have a fulfilling year, JV.

[brasscitybluenwhite]

Originally Posted by CTHere

Do you wash dishes in cold water so you dont use the hot water?

ARE U SERIOUS? THAT is hood!!!! I lived in the hood for 9 years and even WE used hot water. I cant believe u went there..gotta tell moms about that one!!!

[wanderintonc]

Originally Posted by CTHere

[color=navy] Do you cut your own hair?

Do you wash dishes in cold water so you dont use the hot water?
]

Well, I've always cut my family's hair (and dh does mine) so no biggie there. But I wanted to point out, that using cold water to wash dishes does not properly kill germs and such on the items. And I'm not saying, run the hot water endlessly while washing-but my aunt used to wash cold and then dunk in hot, for proper cleaning.

In fact, the use of a dishwasher is actually more efficient, on both water and electricity, than hand washing. It's a 'luxury' that is also good for saving water, electricity and $. And it properly sanitizes the items, which I consider to be healthier for my family, particularly in cold/flu season. I also do our toothbrushes in it, to keep down germ spreading in the bathroom.

[Rich Lee]

Originally Posted by Rich Lee

Unemployment figures for December are due out this week. Analysts predict another 500,000 jobs lost.

They were pretty close:

Jobless rate jumps to 7.2 percent in Dec. - Economy in Turmoil- msnbc.com

State figures will be available on 01/23/2009.

[Snowman27]

Sorry I haven;t posted here in a few days..Interesting comments though. Snow is on my mind now so I'll have to wait to comment here.