[JViello]

Originally Posted by netdragon

As someone who moved from CT to Atlanta and saw what rail can do, I can say that the rail will at the very least encourage mixed-use development around the stations. That will more than pay itself back in revenue from taxes if the state is smart enough to help draw investors to build around the stations with private-public sponsorship programs. Heck, East Windsor alone has a huge swath of tabacco farmland along I-91 that can easily be developed.

Another thing you haven't considered is that Hartford and Springfield really need to become a single metro with cross-commute to be big enough to compete with metro areas like Atlanta. This rail will offer a single transit backbone that will be a huge step forward in starting to compete with other areas.

The most rail-accessible state per-capita is and will continue to be New Jersey, considering most of it is part of two major metro areas. However, considering Connecticut has a huge game of catch-up, this will be a major step forward.

Totally totally comparing apples and grapefruits.

Atlanta is a totally different issue. One of the reasons you see development around the rail stops is because people are sick of sitting on 12 lane parking lots 30 miles outside of the city for 1-2 hours a day just to get home.

If any city could be used as an example for uncontrolled sprawl and poor expansion planning it would be Atlanta.

Don't get me wrong, I've been there plenty of times on business and pleasure and enjoyed myself...but I would never, ever want to live there and deal with that mess on a daily basis.

I like the tobacco fields and small hamlets like Broad Brook just how they are. No need for mass sprawl development here. BUT since your brought it up, Tolland County already is the fastest growing area in CT. So even without the rail, something is working well.

Originally Posted by JayCT

Why would we ever want that to happen???

Exactly!

We already kind of are a "metro" but it's not like Dallas/Ft Worth (Which BTW is further apart then Hartford/Springfield). Nevermind that there is a state border between us, so it will never really have the cohesiveness of two cities within a state sharing a metro area.

Although when coming into Bradley and they say "Welcome to Hartford/Springfield" I always wonder if Mass is putting some cash into our airport to get the "plug". They should. lol

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by JayCT

That would be a bus station on the New Britain Hartford busway which should start construction next year. This project is a dedicated bus roadway that would follow an old abandoned train track from downtown New Britain to Newington where it would join the existing Amtrak line and head into downtown Hartford. A busway is like a light rail line except instead of have tracks and streetcars it has a raodbed and buses. These have been very successful in other parts of the country and should work well in a city the size of Hartford.

This project has been on the planning boards for years and finally looks to be a reality if the local politicans don't mess it up with there latest scheme to build at rail line directly from Waterbury to Hartford. If that is pushed forward, the state would have to scrap the busway. Jay

Although I know there's a lot of "real estate" so to speak in between Waterbury and Hartford, I can't imagine a rail line since if I'm not mistaken unlike the New Haven to Springfield proposal, there's no existing rail structure, abandoned or not, to work on to keep it cost effective. Waterbury has an obscure branch of Metro North, but that goes due south to Bridgeport, not to Hartford. A busway is a great idea, I think Boston essentially expanded their "subway system" by making a "line" out of a busway that even goes underground downtown so even big cities benefit by it in these cost-conscious times.

netdragon, NJ would've been my other "knee jerk" answer as to the state with the most transit per capita. Where else (at least in America, and Baltimore-Washington doesn't count since they're virtually one big combined area) can you travel between two very big cities/metros strictly on non-Amtrak commuter rail like you can NYC-Philly via NJ Transit (LA-San Diego doesn't count because that's it's really just using an expanded version of the regular Amtrak run for commuter purposes).

JViello, there are lots of metro areas that straddle two or more states, the NYC tri-state area (OK it's obviously much larger) is one of course. And I imagine some of the tobacco farmers wouldn't mind selling their fields to developers, isn't it a relatively dying industry? Not that I'm a big fan of sprawl either, mind you. But if nothing else, I think the real estate meltdown is going to have a big effect on curbing sprawl in most places, at least for the 2010s.

[kettleman]

I am skeptical of this rail line. For one I don't see the need because you are connecting seperate markets. Hartford could use rail to connect to places like Simsbury and it's immediate neighbors. However Springfield...I don't see the need...and New Haven already has metro north and shore line. New Haven is much less a part of Hartford than it is metro NY. This sounds like an effort to 1) increase sprawl and 2) guise New Haven as being part of New England and trying to woe it away from New York influence. I would reject it.

[brasscitybluenwhite]

If they're building a busway from New Britain to Newington, then why would one care about a rail line from Waterbury to Hartford? The rail line is already in place, so it wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a train and renovate tracks than to build a busway and buy buses? I'm not trying to be stupid, trust me, I am a fan of whatever would benefit the state more. But Waterbury is a victim of its own isolation. Look at the large cities in the state; Hartford as to New Haven, Bridgeport as to Stamford and also Norwalk. Waterbury doesn't really have its own "partner city". This has contributed to its economic decline. Ask people in Stamford or Bridgeport if they've every been to Waterbury. Ask people in Hartford and New Haven when the last time they've been to Waterbury. Look at the long term ramifications of a rail service from Waterbury to Hartford:

Metro-North runs a rail service already on the southern line of this railway (from Waterbury to Bridgeport). Imagine if the DOT purchased the line from Waterbury to Hartford. Imagine if the state ended its Metro North service and utilized the entire line from Bridgeport to Hartford. Would the state benefit more from that type of service or a busway from Newington to Hartford? Isn't there already a highway (I-91) and a rail service (amtrak) that connects the New Haven-Hartford-Springfield corridor?

Keep in mind that the rail is already in place but it isn't used north of waterbury (only by cargo trains through waterbury to terryville). There is also a smaller line that extends off the main branch to Torrington through Litchfield (Waterbury>Litchfield>Torrington) that has limited use.

I think the state (and Waterbury, which would probably benefit more than anyone) would benefit more from a rail service that connects tri-state area towns to hartford than a bus service that connects Newington to New Britain (?). It looks selfish on Hartford's part. They're not the only city in this state.

[Beeker2211]

"This sounds like an effort to 1) increase sprawl and 2) guise New Haven as being part of New England and trying to woe it away from New York influence. I would reject it."

1) Sprawl is going to happen, but at a slower more condensed pace with trains rather than car-dependent communities. Look at Connecticut as it is, the vast majority of the population follows a thin line following both Metro-North and the old New-Haven to Hartford lines. "Denial: Driven by Sprawl" that aired sometime ago on CPTV and is available online there touched on a lot on sprawl and the actual vs precieved nature of sprawl in Connecticut and the region, it really rails car-dependency as being disasterous to tax rolls and quality of life.

2) At least in Fairfield County, the "New York" angle is overplayed significantly. Stamford has become the destination of most Fairfield County exuctives and there continues to be a net inflow of workers comming from New York State and Connecticut into Stamford-Norwalk-Bridgeport. How could it hurt if Hartford and Waterbury Businesses and Residents were more connected to our own state and the greater New England/Tri-State area?

I am in full agreement with expanding these rail services, the busway if they could get it going for a decent price might be grand but does seem a bit misplaced attention.

As for news... I've been paying attention but it seems to be going, albeit slightly slower than may be imagained, Joesph Marie seems like he's behind it though.

~Cheers

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by kettleman

I am skeptical of this rail line. For one I don't see the need because you are connecting seperate markets. Hartford could use rail to connect to places like Simsbury and it's immediate neighbors. However Springfield...I don't see the need...and New Haven already has metro north and shore line. New Haven is much less a part of Hartford than it is metro NY. This sounds like an effort to 1) increase sprawl and 2) guise New Haven as being part of New England and trying to woe it away from New York influence. I would reject it.

Actually, Springfield can use some help from it. Check out the Massachusetts forum and you will find enough Western Mass supporters of it. Massachusetts is contributing part of the cost so don't feel as if we are stealing from you.

As for New Haven, well why is it so bad to connect it to Hartford? If you didn't know, your home state's son J.P. Morgan called his railroad the "New York, New Haven, and Hartford Railroad" for a reason. To me, an ultimate rail link connecting Hartford to New York is not bad at all, better than building another highway connecting the two of which Connecticut has too many of already.

[7 Wishes]

Other than being at the end of the Metro North line, why is New Haven considered "New York metro" (and I don't mean by the gov't and their silly CSA definitions who also lump Trenton, NJ this way when it's clearly closer to Philly, is in their TV/media market and even has a commuter rail line to there)?

It is part of the Hartford-New Haven-Springfield TV/media market and are closer to Hartford than to NYC (though to Springfield it's about even I think). And in my view, it is too far away from NYC to be reasonably commutable (yes, it's possible, but it's like those people in the Poconos in NE Penn. or in Dutchess County, NY who commute to NYC), but I can see (though still kind of far) commuting to Hartford from there or vice versa.

Perhaps there's a little more of "New York" cultural influence in New Haven than there would be in Hartford, and geographically, that's understandable (after all, Hartford is just as far from Boston as it is from NY, unlike New Haven), but I hardly think it's on the level it is in Stamford or even Bridgeport and Danbury.

And Urban Peasant, I agree more NYC-Hartford highways are not needed, I can already think of many different almost equally distant ways to connect the 2 (I-684 to 84, Merritt Pkwy to Wilbur Cross to I-91, I-95 to I-91, I-95 or Merritt to rt. 8 to I-84).

[uconn99]

Just to point something out, Hartford and New Haven share one Media/TV market. Springfield has their own.

In fact, the Hartford/New Haven Media market I believe is in the top 25 in the nation. It varies from year to year.

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by uconn99

Just to point something out, Hartford and New Haven share one Media/TV market. Springfield has their own.

In fact, the Hartford/New Haven Media market I believe is in the top 25 in the nation. It varies from year to year.

I thought Springfield only has a PBS and ABC affiliate (the latter because Ch. 8 in New Haven is kind of far from them) and uses the Hartford area stations for CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. (and Ch. 20 in Waterbury for CW).

[JayCT]

The tracks between New Britain and Waterbury are in questionable shape and could not support a quality commuter rail service without a significant upgrade costing millions. In New Britain the tracks split, heading north to Newington Junction and Hartford or south to Berlin. The track to the north is virtually non-existant and has missing sections. Plus the right-of-way is pretty narrow and runs through some residental neighborhoods and crosses local streets. It would cost a lot of rebuild this section. I think a rail connection should be built but it is years in the future. Jay